THEIR CLAIM?
That they are channeling (they do not use this word, but I am using it for clarity's sake) a group of wise, all-knowing entities known collectively as Abraham.
MY DISPUTE
Esther and Jerry are cashing in on the multi-million dollar industry of channeling. Channeling was the evolution of the Spiritualism movement, which began in 1800s with the "rapping" claims of the Fox Sisters. After the Fox Sisters admitted to fraud and Houdini outed various other fake mediums, Spiritualism began to die out. In Spiritualism, proofs were offered to convince people that a contact with the other side was occurring. This included--but was not limited to--knocks, ringing bells, and ectoplasm. Today, channelers have taken this idea of speaking for those beyond the grave (or of a nonphysical nature). Only now, the alleged medium or channeler doesn't even need proof, just the allegation that they are receiving from another world and a nice philosophy to back it up.
CALL FOR CRITICAL EXAMINATION
I’m willing to suspend my arguments against the Law of Attraction (for this entry) and go with the notion that it does exist, because Law of Attraction existing in no way inhibits my analysis of Esther and Jerry Hicks. Why? Because even if what Esther and Jerry claim about Law of Attraction is true, that doesn't prove Abraham's existence. And considering the repetitive jargon they use that has been and is used by channelers across the country for decades, their dubious past with Amway, their foolish endorsement of cold reader John Edward, their bogus predictions of global disasters in the late 80s, and their hazy understanding of science and psychology, I'd say that we have more than enough reason to doubt the existence of the group of beings known as Abraham.
THE RHETORIC
A look at their rhetoric is important, because it has been around as long as the New Age movement.
1. You create your own reality. This one has been around since the very beginning. JZ Knight’s Ramtha says it too, and I will not go into the myriad of reasons why I consider her to be less than sincere. It will take little research, and between watching Jeff Knight’s and ex-bodyguard Glen Cunningham’s interviews on the Ramtha School of Enlightenment (not to mention the entire LARSE organization of former R.S.E. members who consider the school to be a dangerous cult) you can see that the evidence against her is mighty. Mafu also uses this catch phrase. Meredith Vieira confronted Penny Torres, Mafu’s channel, about her claims in the 80s. You can see this bit here: Meredith Vieira vs Mafu. Both are, in my opinion, completely ridiculous and use the same rhetoric to enchant auditoriums of people. Many other channels are famous for using this same bit.
2. You are an extension of Source energy. Different wording. Ramtha uses God, but still the same idea. They all use this in some way. Seth, Bashar, Mafu, Neale Donald Walsch. Walsch, author of the best selling Conversations with God series was recently involved in a plagiarism scandal. You can read The New York Times article on it here.
3. Law of Attraction exists. Law of Attraction was written about heavily in the early 1900s by authors such as William Walker Atkinson, who wrote Thought Vibration or the Law of Attraction in the Thought World. More recently in the New Age world, the term manifesting has been used to explain the same phenomenon. Manifesting and Law of Attraction are all about visualizing, focusing, feeling your way into it. See Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz, The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale, or The Science of Mind by Ernest Holmes for more information.
So what's the problem with them repeating catch phrases and passe ideas? Take a look at this quote from Abraham's Orlando, FL workshop 11/10/2007: "We are suggesting that when you are receiving from source energy, you are not finding the words that have already been written. You are finding new explanation of it....Don't go back and regurgitate what has already been written."
But that's exactly what they are doing! Their greatest innovation is from William Walker Atkinson's books on Law of Attraction. Furthermore, Abraham uses this regurgitated Law of Attraction as proof of what they say. In their interview with Peter Beamish, they say, prove it to yourself and manifest something and show yourself that what they are saying is true. However, even if what they were saying was true—even if we are to assume that Law of Attraction is so—the accomplishment of manifesting is not proof of Abraham's existence. Law of Attraction would only prove that manifesting exists. It would be like if an entity informed you of the law of gravity and you went out and threw an apple into the air and it fell. Anyone who understood that principle could awe you and convince you of their validity, but that doesn’t make them nonphysical. It also does not prove the myriad of other things that they claim, including, but not limited to:
1. You are the creator of your own reality.
2. You are here in this body because you chose to be here.
3. You are an extension of Source.
4. You can be, do, or have anything.
5. Your emotions guide you.
6. You cannot die. You are everlasting life.
7. Abraham exists (once again, for affect)
Many people have said, regarding Abraham’s validity, that they do not care about the messenger--just the message. But if it is just about the message, people can find this same material in sources outside of Abraham, said in the same way—over and over and over again. But they don't, because the allure of Abraham extends beyond the Law of Attraction and includes these other premises that Abraham can't prove, particularly the promise of eternal life, which Abraham's very existence seems to validate to those who participate in their teachings.
THE IMPORTANCE OF AMWAY
I'd heard that Jerry Hicks had been involved with Amway pre-Abraham, but that didn't raise any red flags. After all, plenty of people make money in sales. That doesn't make them bad people. However, as I listened to Jerry and Esther's interviews, I noticed that they would actually avoid mentioning Amway. Instead, they would just say that Jerry had made his millions before their Abraham work and leave it at that. The interviewers that were already head-over-heels in love with Abraham wouldn't go any further. More credible sources, like The Independent and The New York Times, would mention the Amway connection, but leave it at that. Esther and Jerry's unwillingness to discuss this roused my interest.
On the surface, their Amway past doesn't seem like such a bad thing. They were making money the good-old-fashion American way, selling soaps and appliances--right? Wrong. Check out Dateline’s two part expose on Quixtar (one of Amway’s new names):
In the expose (particularly the second half), Dateline reveals that the distributors who profit most make their money from selling motivational seminars and courses on how to get rich to their downline (recruited distributors below them). In an article called "The Hidden Persuaders" by Tony Thompson, Thomspon says "The majority of the wealth of the tiny number of top-ranked distributors in this country comes not just from the sale of Amway products but from selling motivational materials and organizing seminars and rallies for the people below them."
Jerry was one of these top-ranked distributors. He and his wife Trish are actually listed as crown level distributors (that's higher than diamond) in 1979:
In the Introduction to Abraham audio clips, in the segment called "Living Think and Grow Rich." Jerry states that "it [Think and Grow Rich] worked so well for me that in a very brief time I was able to build a multi-national business, touching meaningfully the lives of many thousands. I even began teaching the principles that I was learning from the book." Esther actually met Jerry in 1976 at a “business presentation” where he was doing just that (Behind). As seen in the Dateline expose, Amway distributors sell their own, companion materials (CDs, tickets to seminars, and books) to renowned works like Think and Grow Rich to make more money off their downline. In fact, this is where most of their money comes from. Jerry was using this same trick with his own Think and Grow Rich "business presentations."
Not fishy enough for you? Check out A New Beginning I, where Jerry discusses him and Esther’s life while they were residing in Arizona, just before their first interactions Abraham. He writes about how successful his multi-national distributorship had been, and went on to write, "We toured the northwestern states with our motorhome, took repeated trips and cruises to the Virgin, Caribbean, and Hawaiian Islands and all the while, we continued to add to our business" (Hicks 108). That's exactly what they do now--travel the country, give seminars, and add to their business. Only, back then, they were using Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich. Then, as Jerry sates in A Message from Jerry & Esther: Oct/Nov/Dec 1997 (from their website, Abraham-Hicks.com): "Abraham appeared. And as Abraham began to respond so wisely and unconditionally lovingly to my questions, we wanted to immediately teach what we were now learning to our business associates...but questions soon began to flow from outside of that circle of our business partners...which then drew us outside of that relatively small arena to others who in turn told others who taught others who told others..."
So they packed up Think and Grow Rich and started selling their own Abraham materials to their “business associates” [I can only assume their Amway downline] who in turn brought in their “associates” till it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. I for one, find this highly suspicious. It seems to me that Jerry, clearly already brilliant at selling the concepts of Think and Grow Rich, found an even better way to package them.
If you press Esther and Jerry about why they don't talk about this, they will say, as they did in The Independent's interview, it's "utterly irrelevant." I on the other hand, find it incredibly relevant.
For more information about Jerry and Esther’s Amway past, check out the article I set aside specifically on this here.
A FOOLISH ENDORSEMENT OF JOHN EDWARD
Abraham, who claims to be all-knowing, seems to have difficulty discerning the authenticity of those who claim to communicate with the deceased. In one workshop, a questioner asks Abraham about alleged psychic medium John Edward. I have included a transcription as Exhibit D under the Abraham Hicks Files, if you'd like to read it. Abraham validates his abilities, stating that he is a "superb reader of energy." However, Edward is known for using a technique known as cold reading to dupe his audiences. In a cold reading, fraud psychics probe for information in a very round-about way to convince someone that they are reading minds or communicating with the dead. Many see John Edward using this skill when he says things like “It sounds like Mary” or “I’m getting a B name, Bobby or Barry.” James Randi gives an excellent explanation of cold readings in this video : James Randi and Doris Collins "Cold Reader". There is also a brilliant article he wrote called "The Art of Cold Reading."
And cold reading is not the worst of his offenses. When Dateline covered Edward, they caught him cheating when he tried to pass off pre-obtained information as revelations from the spirit world. In this next bit, the Dateline interviewer confronts Edward about the incident.
To see the full article, you can go to: John Edward: Hustling the Bereaved
HOCKENBERRY: So were you aware that his dad had died before you did his reading?
Mr. EDWARD: I think he-I think earlier in the-in the day, he had said something.
HOCKENBERRY: It makes me feel like, you know, that that’s fairly significant. I mean, you knew that he had a dead relative and you knew it was the dad.
Mr. EDWARD: OK.
HOCKENBERRY: So that’s not some energy coming through, that’s something you knew going in. You knew his name was Tony and you knew that his dad had died and you knew that he was in the room, right? That gets you . . .
Mr. EDWARD: That’s a whole lot of thinking you got me doing, then. Like I said, I react to what’s coming through, what I see, hear and feel. I interpret what I'm seeing hearing and feeling, and I define it. He raised his hand, it made sense for him. Great.
HOCKENBERRY: But a cynic would look at that and go, 'Hey,' you know, 'He knows it’s the cameraman, he knows it’s DATELINE. You know, wouldn't that be impressive if he can get the cameraman to cry?'
Mr. EDWARD: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Not at all.
Outside of cheating and using cold reading techniques, the producers of John Edward's shows are known for editing them to make it appear that he makes more "psychic hits" than he actually does.
For further on John Edward's alleged abilities, here are some good articles:
Demystifying John Edward of Crossing Over
Investigating Spirit Communications
The all-knowing Abraham seems to fall short when looking to the sincerity of psychic mediums. What else may they not be privy too?
BAD PREDICTION: The Handbook for Joyous Survival - Any takers?
*Abraham quotes cited between A New Beginning I and Special Subjects tape: Joyous Survival.
They also seem to fall short when they try to predict the future. Anyone remember when Abraham was warning of the great earth changes? Abraham told Jerry in the recording called Joyous Survival (you can find this in the special subject series), that we were “very near this realignment” and that the “realignment is in progress already” and would happen in his lifetime (Special). These conversations were in 1989. It's nearly 2011 now.
Regarding the great earth changes, Abraham said, “These changes will be very abrupt…” (Special) and "…volcanic ash will be experienced in all parts of your world, as the volcanoes around your earth are simultaneously activated. Face masks and goggles will be of great value" (Hicks 79). They give great specifics about earthquakes across the U.S. and enormous water damage on the east coast (Hicks 74). Afterward, they said, “your transportation will be severed, so will your economic lines, so will your government” (Special). And “In any event, when the great realignment is upon you, you will not question it, because it will be far beyond anything you've experienced before” (Special).
In case you were doubting them, they wanted you to remember they are nonphysical. "We are aware that you may have difficulty accepting the reality of this physical event, but we encourage you to acknowledge our broader perspective" (Hicks 79). Not exactly the you-discern-truth-for-yourself campaign they've been on recently.
Some Abraham followers now rationalize this prediction away, saying that we must have changed our consciousness enough to change the earth. But in the Joyous Survival tape, Abraham likened stopping this change as being like trying to gather people together to stop the sun from coming up in the morning. Abraham told a story of Esther realizing that “There are those things that have been set into motion, agreements that have been entered into that are outside of her [Esther’s] creative alteration here through this conscious thinking wanting” (Special). In other words, this wasn’t something she or anyone was going to be able to stop from happening, because we “agreed” upon being here during a time of great disaster.
In the 05/16/1993 workshop, Abraham admitted that their expectation of when the changes were to occur was wrong. Though they had strongly expected we were on the brink of realignment in the fall of 1988, evidently the energy had dispersed. They also said that they had believed we were close in 1990, but again that energy had subsided. In 1994, Esther, Jerry, and Abraham revised A New Beginning I, stating, "When that is [realignment], we don't know" (Hicks 81). I am surprised, considering there were many who were willing to “acknowledge” their “broader perspective."
Anyone hear Abe harping on earth changes now? Nope. No need. All is well. Guess I have to put away my face mask and goggles.
SCIENCE AND PSYCHOLOGY FOR DUMMIES
Finally, as my last point for this particular entry (but certainly not my last problem with Abraham Hicks), I present their bizarre perspective of science and psychology. In an article called Abe Present's: Junk Science, I write about the following Abraham quote:
From Abraham Hicks' Caribbean Cruise: 2010
ABRAHAM: That's how the scientist's discover new science. They start out with a hypothesis--an idea--and then others believe enough in the idea that they make it true. You see?
It seems that Abraham is suggesting that we were all just floating around. Then Newton came along, convinced everyone that gravity existed, and we all got sucked down to earth. Or maybe they are trying to suggest that evolution didn't occur till Darwin dreamed it up and then the world was covered in evidence to support him. I find their statement on science to be one of the most ridiculous notions I have ever heard. I sincerely doubt that even geniuses like Newton, Einstein, Darwin, and Bohr were able to morph the entire world, past and present, because of they were such powerful creators. The more likely case is that Abraham believes that science works like their pseudoscience, which it does not.
Equally appalling is Abraham's lack of understanding around psychology. In an Asheville, NC workshop (10/26/2007) Abraham responds to a guest’s question about the nature of Schizophrenia. Here's what they say:
ABRAHAM:...and often, a sort of other perspective is born in this. It’s like who-you-are keeps calling forth, calling you forth. And if there is a very resistant personality that won’t allow you to go, often another personality emerges to go….That desire to be free just keeps spurting out in another way and another way and another way….Some who have very fast moving energy just find other ways of getting around that, and these multiple personalities is often one of those ways….And, if you know him well enough, tell him you have a good friend named Abraham who is also Schizophrenic. Meaning we have many perspectives that are emerging. In other words, we are not one mind. We are not one thinker. We are a cumulative, collection, culmination of consciousness.
Really, Abraham? What would you being Schizophrenic have to do with you having multiple perspectives?
Google Health defines Schizophrenia as “a mental disorder that makes it difficult to tell the difference between real and unreal experiences, to think logically, to have normal emotional responses, and to behave normally in social situations.” Regarding "multiple personalities," once known as MPD, now known as Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), Medicinenet.com says that “some professionals continue to be of the opinion that DID does not exist” and that it is “a mental illness that involves the sufferer experiencing at least two clear identities or personality states, also called alters, each of which has a fairly consistent way of viewing and relating to the world.”
To summarize: Professionals do not doubt the existence of Schizophrenia. DID is questioned. DID deals with an alternative personality. Schizophrenia does not. They don’t have anything to do with each other. Yet it makes sense why Abraham would blend the two, as there are popular misconceptions about these two very different mental illnesses. Once again, if Abraham is so unaware as to the nature of the mind, how are we to trust that they have any understanding of the supposed metaphysical laws that they speak of?
CONCLUSION
Jargon reminiscent of so many other dubious channelers, a suspicious Amway past, a naive endorsement of John Edward, false earth predictions, and a serious lack of understanding on science and psychology culminate to suggest there may very well be more to Abraham than all-knowingness. Abraham has yet to produce any information that can prove their validity, and I am certain that will remain the case. I hope that the information that I have presented will incline people to look at Abraham Hicks from a more critical standpoint. I have offered what, to me, is enough evidence to say that it is highly likely that Abraham is a cash-cow creation of Jerry and Esther Hicks. Though they are marketing geniuses and have cleverly created a seal-proof philosophy that offers no objective means of testing, I submit that they are doing what so many psychics, mediums, and channelers have done before them. Duped millions.
REFERENCES
Atkinson, William Walker. Thought Vibration or Law of Attraction in the Thought World. Out of Print Edition.
Chalmers, Robert. "Interview: The Couple Who Claim They Can Make You Rich beyond Your Wildest Dreams." The Independent [London] 8 July 2007. The Independent Website. Web.
Hansen, Chris. "In Pursuit of the Almighty Dollar." Dateline NBC (NBC News). 7 May 2004. Television.
Hicks, Esther and Jerry. 2002. A New Beginning I. Texas: Abraham Hicks Publications.
----. Special Subjects Tapes Vol. 1: Joyous Survival. Abraham Hicks Publications, 1998. CD.
----. 2007/10/26 Asheville, NC. Abraham Hicks. Rec. 26 Oct. 2007. Abraham Hicks Publications, 2007. CD.
----. 2007/11/10 Orlando, FL. Abraham Hicks. Rec. 11 Nov. 2007. Abraham Hicks Publications, 2007. CD.
----. Carribean Cruise 2010. Abraham Hicks. Abraham Hicks Publications, 2010. CD.
----. "A Message from Jerry & Esther: Oct/Nov/Dec 1997." Abraham-Hicks Law of Attraction Journal. Abraham Hicks Publications. Web. 09 Aug. 2010.
----. Abraham-Hicks Law of Attraction Introductory CD. Abraham Hicks Publications. Web. 15 Mar. 2009.
Nickell, Joe. "John Edward: Hustling the Bereaved." Skeptical Inquirer 25.6 (2001). CSI. Center for Skeptical Inquiry. Web. 10 Aug. 2010.
Salkin, Allen. "Shaking Riches Out of the Cosmos." The New York Times [New York] 25 Feb. 2007. The New York Times.
Thompson, Tony. "The Hidden Persuaders," Time Out, June 22-29, 1994.
She does have a sense of humor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpBb4P-phKk.
You Would Have To Lack Tremendous Amounts Of Sensitiveness To NOT Be Able To Feel The Richly Deep Fragrance Of Spirit All Over The Deal Here.
ReplyDeleteThe Existence Of Abrhamas Can Not Be Proved, However, The Message... You Have Completely Over Looked The Greatnesses Of The Message Brought Forth To Us.
The Entire Focus Of Your Work Is Vicusly Doctored To Make Them Look Bad, But You NEVER Say ONE Thing About The Life Changing Mental Consepts, And Exercises Offered Here, You Did Not Mention The Millions Of People Whos Life Had Dramatically Improved Because Of Abraham, Esther and Jerry...(me one of them)
It Surtenly Sounds As If You Are Mortally Jealous And Sower Of Their Incredible World Wide Succsses.
There Is One Thing I Agree With You.... Yes, She Is In Deed a Very Humorist Person, Inst She?
Respectfully,
Gerude Villainsting
As always, I am open to criticism. I understand that there are many who have benefited from these teachings, but that is not the focus of my blog. I don't consider the things I point out to be "doctored". I point these things out and offer links so that others may watch and come to their own conclusions. I, obviously, have come to my conclusion. As to the benefit of their processes, there is tremendous benefit to all of them, as they are rooted in therapies that have been around for a very long time (long before Abraham). However, I have seen many lives destroyed by these teachings. If it is working for you, I am very pleased, and I wish you the best on your journey. I am very pleased that you have found something that enriches your life in so many ways.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how they teachings can harm anyone, and can't imagine to destroy someones live???? why you so obsess about her money,I think there is something wrong with you and definitely you've missed understood they message.
DeleteI understand that there are many who have benefited from these teachings, but that is not the focus of my blog.... >Of Curse NOT, Any One Can See That! Your Focus Is Completely On The Negative Of All Of This Wonderful Event... Totally!!
ReplyDeletedon't consider the things I point out to be "doctored". I point these things out and offer links so that others may watch and come to their own conclusions.... >By Doctored I Mean That You Have Deliberately Manipulate The Specific Information To Make Them Look Bad, And Is Self Evident The Powerful Levels Of Jealousy That Drives You.
I have seen many lives destroyed by these teachings.... >I Tell You a Story: The Other Day a Family Of Four(4) Came Into My Clinic, For The Life Of Goodness, I Could Not Believed My Eyes, The Man Had a Cast Broken Leg, And a Broker Arm, The Wife Had a One-Piece Cast Best-Arm Metal Structure Holding Two Broken Arms In Place, The Two Children Had This Incredible Look Of Despair In Their Little Eyes, Confused Beyond Believe. The Couple Explain Me How The Law Of Gravity Had Destroyed Their Lives, They Tell Me That They Are Students Of The Law Of Gravity, But Now They Are Sure That Sir Isaac Newton Was a Dangerous Cult Member, And Albert Einstein Was a Fraud Because Every Time They Jump From Their Balcony Off The Fourth Floor Landed On The Rocks Over And Over Again Till Their Liefs Became a Disaster. I Did Not Find a Way To Make This People Understand That They Where Wrong In The Way They Use This Powerful Law. When They Left They Where Going To Publish a Blog In The Internet Telling Every One The Horrors Of The Law Of Gravity.
However, I have seen many lives destroyed by these teachings.... > Please, These People You Are Referring To Had Their Liefs Already DESTROYED Prior To Abraham, There Is Not Possible Way That This Teachings Will Harm Any One, (get real) Unless They Where Already Deep In a Self-Made Destroying Hellish Spiral, And Abraham Happens To Walk Into Their Life One Instant Prior To Collapse.
there is tremendous benefit to all of them,... > In Deed There Is.! But It Takes People Like You Looking, Finding, Even Making Up Staff To Make Bad Something Good, You Even Show Their Documentation Of Their Divorce Of Prior Marriages... You Are Focus On The Negative, Coming From a Deep Lack. "THAT, THAT IS, ATTRACTS MORE OF THE SAME ENERGY, MOVING ABOUT TO TOGETHERNESS BY THE VERY NEXT OBVIOUS MINIMUM EFFORT STEP... Keep That Up, And You Will Soon Sport a New One-Piece Cast Best-Arm Metal Structure Holding Your Two Broken Arms In Place! Is Just Matter Of Time!
If it is working for you, I am very pleased, and I wish you the best on your journey. I am very pleased that you have found something that enriches your life in so many ways... >Thank You Very Much. I Would Like To Say This To You: "WHEN YOU CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS, THE THINGS THAT YOU LOOK AT WILL CHANGE" The Laws That Rules This Universe Will Continuo Do So Regardless Of Your Points Of View...
God Bless.
Respectfully,
Gerude Villiansting
Upps What Is This? I Do Not Know Why This Got Repeated So many Times, I Got A Message That Is Was To Long To Proses... mmmm... Sorry.!
ReplyDeleteAll good. I deleted the ones that repeated, but left your original comments. And I agree with you that I am focused on the negative of Abraham Hicks. However, if you go back and look at the things I have cited, you will be able to see that I have not "doctored" anything. I didn't make things up. Most of the things I use are quoted and contain their original intent. If you would like to show me something I have made up or falsified, I will be happy to remove the fiction from this blog.
ReplyDeleteIt is possible that "powerful levels of jealousy drive" me. But I think it is also possible that an enormous sense of injustice drives me.
And I have to agree with you on your quote, "WHEN YOU CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS, THE THINGS THAT YOU LOOK AT WILL CHANGE" That's what I did with Abraham Hicks and look at how quickly they are changing right before my eyes.
I do appreciate your taking your time to review my blog.
Kyra
Your Welcome, I Can Also See Your High Levels Of Good Education. You Know? Its Always Great To Have A Challenging Discussion With A Master Opponent.
ReplyDeleteI Most Tell You That My Command Of English Is Limited And I Used "Doctored" NOT By Means Of You Had Lied In Here, Rather You Trough Pains Taking Collection Of Information Used To Discredit Some One Who Has In Deed, And Beyond a Shadow Of A Doubt Benefit With This Extraordinary Mental Concepts That Will Put "ANY ONE" In Control Of His Own Destiny.
Why You Attack Them That Way? I Do Not Know? Why You Have Not Benefited In A Positive Way From Them? I Do Not Know That Either!
Can I Ask You a Question? What Difference Does It Makes Whether They Are Legit On The Abraham Deal Or Not? Just Humor Me Here.! Imagine One Morning Jerry Telling Esther... Hey Dear, You Know? I Got a Great Idea! Lets Trick-Flip The Entire World With This Bounteous Line, Listen Dear, You Are Gonna Remember Your Acting Classes Ok?, Your Are Gonna Close Your Eyes And Then Pretend That a Bunch Of Wild Spirits Speak Trough You, And With This Gig We Will Crack In Our Bag a Pile Of Cash.!
And Even If Is In Deed a Fraud, You Know? I Would Admire Them Even More For Being Able To Do What They Do With NO Abraham... They Would Be A Bigger Heroes To Me...
At The End Of The Day, You Known Dear Kyra? All You Take With You Is The Vibrational Frequency That You Where Able To Master While Your Beautiful Gurney In This Physical Experience Of Yours.
The Where I'm Coming From? Why I'm Here? Where I'm Going? Finally Stooped Tormenting Me Thanks Dearly To Abraham, Now, I Can Sit Down To Look At The Sun Set In Peace, In Total Content Contemplation. For The First Time In My Life I Am In Control Of My Destiny, I Had It All Ways! Is Just That I Forgot, And Abraham Remained Me Of How Much I Knew How To Do It...
I'm Today a Better Human Than Before I Knew Abraham.
Respectfully,
Gerude Villiansting
Gerude,
ReplyDeleteIf you have benefited enormously from their work, as I can see you have, I am not trying to diminish what you have gotten from them. I am glad that it is working for you and that you are a better person than you were before Abraham. I can tell by your messages that you are a very well-intentioned, loving person, and I have absolutely nothing against any of that.
And I do agree that I have taken things that they have said and used it to discredit them. That’s what this blog is about. A lot of what I use in this blog are things I encountered while I was still listening to them and doing the processes. These are not so much things that I have been trying to dig up. They were things that I made excuses for before I decided that it wasn't working for me. Now, I see that these facts make it clear to me that they were committing a fraud with this whole Abraham gig. To me. And I can see that these facts are meaningless to you. I am not trying to kill Santa Clause here. I just want people to look at all sides of something, and then choose theirs (as I see you have done). I can respect that.
And I see where you are coming from regarding whether or not they are committing fraud. My problem is that their discussion and "proof" of Law of Attraction has nothing to do with "Where I'm coming from? Why I'm here? Where I'm going?" Those are all questions that deal with afterlife and the nature of our existence. They do not have to do with Law of Attraction. Even if Law of Attraction is true, Abraham's discussions about the afterlife or our existence are not necessarily true--especially if they are committing fraud. Our experience of Law of Attraction would just prove its existence. Not the existence of Abraham or what they say about our reason for being. The reason that I am so bothered by their fraud is that this notion of Law of Attraction, even those very words, has been around for a very long time, so when they take that on the road and act as though it is coming through them through some sort of divine interaction, there are many who will not use their critical thinking skills and will just go along with anything that Abraham says, because it must be true. I give the example of gravity in my blog. If Abraham was traveling the world, talking about how gravity exists and telling us all to go throw apples up and watch what happens, that would not prove that Abraham existed. It would just prove that gravity existed. That one proof of one thing they say would not prove all the other not-provable things that they say.
But once again, if Abraham's material gives you this kind of life and sense of wellbeing, I am glad that you have found it. I'm not trying to convert people who have benefited from the work. I'm trying to let people know another side that has not been voiced. If they are like you, and have benefited, nothing I say will deter them from continuing with the work. This is a place to help people decide whether or not this path is right for them.
As for me attacking Esther Hicks or anyone who believes in their work, if what they say is true, they can do focus wheels and “wouldn’t it be nice if” games and work people like Kyra out of their vibration and never be troubled by us again.
And you’re command of the English language, I think, was enough for you to get your points across very well. You speak for a lot of people who use Abraham’s principles, so I am glad that you have come to add this perspective to the blog. Thank you.
As for my position on all this, it remains the same. I was very happy before I came to the teachings. Truly miserable while working with them. And now I am finally happy again. I can go out and enjoy a sunset like I never was able to before. I am convinced it is a fraud, and I believe that that fraud can be detrimental to people’s health, livelihood, and wellbeing. And I do not think fraud is ever acceptable. Even if it was for a good cause.
Truly miserable while working with them. >Wow..."Truly miserable while working with them"??
ReplyDeleteThis Statement Alone, Brings Total Clarity On The Fact That Somewhere Along The Line You Have Lost(more like, you never had it) Your Footing On The Real Spirit Of The Concepts...
"Bring Your Vibrational Frequency Aligned To Source"...
Are You Even Capable Of Capturing The Essence Of This? The Bible Is Full With This Concepts, Every "Prophet" Of The Past And Modern Days Have Told Us This In Different Words.
You Are Giving Jerry And Esther To Much Credit, They Are NOT That Good, They Could Not Have Donne This Revolution With Out Abraham, And If They Have Accomplished It On Their Own Device(with no abraham)... Well... For The Life Of Jesus... That Would Be Far Even More Incredible!
The Teaching Themselves Will Not Harm Any One, Deep In, You Know It! Unless The Person Does Not Understands, That You Are Who You Are And Have What You Have Because Of Your Very Personal Way Of Thinking.(making of your self literally your only and worst enemy)
When You Lorne How To Thing Different You Feel Different, And The Out Come Of Your Life Will Be Accordingly. Denying This Is Equals To Prove One's Ignorance
You Are Right, This Is Not NEW....
"Do Onto Others What ...."
"Love One Another...."
"Knock And It Will Be...."
"Ask And It Will...."
Millions Of Teachings, From Millions Of All Types Of Gurus For As Long As Ever Have Benn Repeating The Same Old Thing, And Now, We Have Jerry And Esther Using a Fabulous Creative Way To Do The Same Thing.
Yes! Abraham Is A Fraud! How Spectacular Fraud, I Want To Be Fraudulentized This Way More Often, I Want To Be Victimized This Way Every Day!
Going To Bed Truly Thankful Of All The Money I Make Every Day In My Resort, To Feel The Beautiful Texture Of The Wool My Sheets Are Made Off, To Feel Every Feather In My Pillows, To Sleep And Dream Colorful Dreams, To Wake Up On The Right Frequency, And Being Able To Keep That Frequency All Day Long... I Don't Ask To No God NOTHING... I Create My Own! By Aligning My Frequency To Source, By Thanking In Advance What It Has Already Given, Now Is Just Matter Of Moving Trough Space And Time, Because What I Want Is Donne, Given, Because I Have Allowed Into My Existence, This Is How My Resort Came Into My Hands, Same As My Dream House, My Cars, My Boat, My Bikes, And Toys, And All The Fantastic Woman In My Life... Everything Comes When You Live In Real Time The FREQUENCY Of The Yet To Be Manifested As It Had Already Been Granted, In Deed You MOST TAKE It For Granted! The Purity Of Your Art In Allowing This, In This Way, Determines How Much Space And Time Before The Manifestation.
Is Pure Magic... People, Things, Events, Circumstances, Situations, Thoughts, They All Orchestrate Them-selfs Around You Moved By The Frequency Of Your Emotions And Thoughts...
The Phone Rings, Is The Deal You Are Chasing, a Friend Of a Friend Who's Got The Deal, And Is Looking For Some One Right Now.! Can You Meet Us Today?
Pure Magic... I Knew It Was Gonna Happen, Just That I Did Not Know It Was Gonna Be This FAST.!
Im Getting Good At It My Dear Friend, Very Good At It.....
Yes! Abraham Is A Fraud! Well, This Fraud Chance My Life... I'm Rich, Happy, Loved, Gorgeous As The Fricken Dickens, Healthy, I Do 10 Hours Of Heavy Gym A Week... Thank To The Fraud Of Abraham Im Now One Powerful Man.
I Want To Be Fraudulentized This Way More Often!
I Want To Be Victimized This Way Every Day!
As Always, Very Lovingly And Respectfully, Your Friend
GeRude VillianSting
I understand your position, and I have said everything on this subject that I feel is appropriate. It does not change where I stand.
ReplyDeleteI hope you like the new black banner. I changed it from that icky purple one I was using before.
I have said everything on this subject. It does not change where I stand... > Of Course! a Good Captain Of a Ship Will Sink With It...
ReplyDeleteGood Luck My Dear Friend.
Yes, Your Banner Is Much Nicer
Respectfully,
Gerude Villiansting
Dear Gerude,
ReplyDeleteMay I chip in here?
I believe 'Abraham Hicks' is a fraud and I won't admire anyone running a scam. You have your opinion and I definitely have mine (with no need for a lengthy defense)
Dear Music,
ReplyDeleteI believe 'Abraham Hicks' is a fraud and I won't admire anyone running a scam...
<Most Definitely! No One Likes That! My Point In Here Is That You And Kyra And Only God Knows How Many Confused Others, Are Not Understanding The Techniques And You Go Back To Your Movie "THE SECRET" And Hope That Money Will Come In Your Mail Box, And Of Curse, You Go Crazy Waiting, And All You Get Is The Perpetuation Of The Absents From Where You Had Departed Your Rocket Of Desire!
You All Still DO NOT GET IT.!
Kyra Ad You, Spends Her Life Digging Into The Personal Life Of Jerry And Esther Under a Cloud Of Negativism, Hate, Jealousy, Despair, You Where Unhappy While Abraham, And Now Really Happy After Abraham Is Gone..? Is Abraham Gone? NO! Mortal Jealousy Of Their Brutal Success Has Taking Its Place, Are You Happier? No! Gossiping? Making Your Own Life Miserable! You All Are And Accident Waiting To Occur... Is Just Matter Of Time And Space.
I See People Like You In My Clinic " The Magic Circle" Every Day, That Is Clear To Every One On This Side Of The Fence, That They Are The Creators Of Their Own Sickness. They Place Blame, And Responsibilities Onto Everyone Else But Themselves Perpetuating Their Disaster.
I Have a Resort In A Tropical Destination, We Kiter a Type Of Truism Call "Medical-Tourism", People Come To Hill In Here From Their Sickness... Every One Of Them Are The Creators Of It! Ones You Are Able To Crack Their Mental Images Of Sickness And Replace Them, Only Then They Begin To Hill.
So Girls... Go Ahead... Digg Into The Dirt Of Fine People, Go Ahead, Contaminate Yours Selfs, By Your Own Device... I Will Have You Two In My Resort Soon...(mmm... NOT...you see, it is rather pricey, negative people live in both, material, and spiritual deep poverty)
A Sense Of Justice, You Say? Kyra Goes In Their Past, Brings Up Their Divorces, (every one divorces, and have affairs, I do it daily)...
Kyar Goes: "AND WHAT ELSE THEY MIGHT BE HIDING?"...
God.! Girls Come On! Get a Life! I Can Not Believe I'm Wasting My Time This Way With You Two.
In The Hopes That Actuality Other People Are Reading All Of This And Are Capable To See The Difference Between People On a Crashing Course With Destiny, And Others Who Are In Complete Control Of Their Life, Emotions, And Destiny.
"WHAT ELSE ARE YOU TWO HADING?"
GOD...!!
Respectfully,
Gerude Villiansti
"Check and see what I dug up on Esther's past here!"
ReplyDelete"Read Esther Weaver Geer Hicks' bio here. "
(SHAME ON YOU KYRA.... GET A LIFE.!)
********************************************
Everything Comes When You LIVE IN REAL TIME The FREQUENCY Of The Yet To Be Manifested
As It Had Already Been Granted.
In Deed, You MOST TAKE It For Granted!
The Purity Of Your Art, In Allowing This, In This Way, Determines How Much Space And Time Before The Manifestation.
********************************************
"WHEN YOU CHANGE THE WAY YOU LOOK AT THINGS, THE THINGS THAT YOU LOOK AT WILL CHANGE"
********************************************
"THAT, THAT IS, ATTRACTS MORE OF THE SAME!
ENERGY MOVING ABOUT, TO TOGETHERNESS BY THE VERY IMMEDIATE NEXT OBVIOUS MOST MINIMUM EFFORT STEP, COMPLETELY ORCHESTRATED BY THE LAW OF ATTRACTION...
********************************************
I Want To Be Fraudulentized This Way More Often!
I Want To Be Victimized This Way Every Day!
As Always, Very Lovingly And Respectfully, Your Friend
GeRude VillianSting
PS
Deeply Thankful To Abraham, Jerry, And Esther Hicks, My Full And Most Deepest Respect To You All.
The More I Read Abraham, The Stronger The Fragrance Of Spirit Becomes Self Evident.
ReplyDeleteThe Only Way To NOT Become Aware Of Such An Emotion, Is By Being Thickly Blocked By One's Ego.!
Kyra, You Are Brutally Egoistic.!
It Would Be Literally Impossible For You To Feel The Soft Aroma Of Spirit While Your Ego Is Got You So Tremendously Blocked With Uncrushable Layers Of Unsensitized Blindness.
Look At Your Writings, Totally Focused On The Mundane.!
The Beautifully Spirited Construction Of The Teachings Of Abraham, Are So Far a Way From You, That Actually They Become "TO YOU" a Tool Of Self Generated, Out Of Control, Down Ward Spiral, Strikebreaking Into The Point Where Can Not Longer Be Holden With-In, And Call For Help To The Support Of Others Like You, All In a Crash-Course With Destiny...
Will You Ever Get The Spirit Of Such a Teachings?...mmm... Almost Like Asking a Fish To Explain The Water In Witch It Swims, Isn't?
Will You Ever Be Able To Discover The Observer In You, That Will Unfold Your Own Ego?
For As Long As You Continue Machining Masqueraded Negativity Fueled By Your Own Gone-Wild-Ego In All Forms Of Justifications... Most DEFINITELY "NEVER.!" Not In Any Experiential Way... Your Ego Is Got You So Nailed To This "Way-Out" Of The Responsibility You've Taken When You Become Physical, That Now, All You Do Is Cry Aloud For Support Of Other Confused Souls Like You.
Be Happy Woman, This Is The Last Of My Writings In Your Site Here!
I Don't Want People To Think I'm Your Friend Or Some Crazy Thing Like That...
Good Bye Kyra.
Respectfully,
GeRude VillianSting
PS
Kyra, Please Go:
www.getalife.com
Ge-Rude,
ReplyDeleteYou may want to let go of some of your own sizeable ego & look up the definition of "respectfully" - because when you sign yourself that way & then tell a person to 'getalife', you are making a liar out of yourself.
And I'm sure you wouldn't want to do that...right?
Less high-horse, more discourse!
Interesting blog Kyra, thank you.
Sian
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteErm...is it possible that abraham is just the 'inspiration' part of esther and there is nothing mystical about abraham?
ReplyDeletethe only hypothesis i can think of for the errors in 'a new beginning' is that possibly at the time, the hicks were also reading up on other new age books and were influenced by them. esther i think in one of the newer book excerpts says that she no longer reads other new age books bc of a potential for distortion.
one thing i never got with them though, is that if indeed they are charlatans, then why they kept it up for so long. they are already multimillionaires, why still earn more money and work 18 hour days? furthermore, why do they tell followers that the only thing important is to feel good?
they also offer quite a bit of free material on their website, and none of their stuff is drm-ed, so it is easy to get pirated material as well. plus, a lot of it's also on youtube :X
Their remarks on the Christian church also really are pretty accurate, and despite them perhaps being charlatans, they condemn and hate no one and do not disapprove of any actions or behaviors. Which, in my opinion, puts them at the very top of religions out there today :P no burning of the gays or the muslims or the democrats.
ReplyDeleteI would encourage others to use the abraham hicks material as a guide for learning more about their own inner-beings and for opening up a dialogue with their own personal 'abraham.' I think that the hicks encourage people to trust their own feelings and intuition. Once again, this in my book puts them at the very top of most religions out there today.
It is fun to see videos and recordings of abraham (for free coughcough). It's material that works for some and doesn't work for others. I think just like lots of belief systems out there.
sorry for the comment #'s! there's a blogger limit.
looptheloop, thanks for leaving comments. Margery, a fraud psychic during the spiritualist movement actually never asked for money and didn't accept donations for her work. She was one of the most popular psychics who was caught cheating her alleged "mystical abilities." You can read more about her in my recommended reading. Money isn't always the only incentive for participating in fraud, though with Esther and Jerry I'm sure it is. As for longevity and success, couldn't you apply the same logic to Sylvia Browne? She must be filthy rich, and she's been around for as long as Esther and Jerry. She's still out there, peddling her junk to anyone who will listen. How many times has she been wrong in her predictions? That's up to stopsylvia.com to figure out, but the point is, there are plenty of frauds who spend their lives in fraudulence even when they make tons of money. Margery spent her entire life in her psychic fraudulence, even after she was outed. Peter Popoff was caught with his wife feeding him information via radio signals in his “faith healing” events where he was allegedly receiving the info from the Divine. He was outed and still works in the faith healing industry. Now he sells holy healing water.
ReplyDeleteI understand your point about their work just being about feeling good and non-judgment. It falls into the category of what's the harm of Abraham Hicks. Well, there are those who have believed Abraham Hicks about the ability for all illnesses to be cured through releasing resistance. I know several cases of people who have died because they refused medical care, in exchange for “virtual reality” and “wouldn’t it be nice if” games. The ones I know of are dead now. And there are those who are not on psychiatric medication for clinical depression and bipolarity because Abraham has told them nothing is wrong with that. There was a woman who was a gay/lesbian rights activist who was encouraged not to push against anyone. There are those out there who are feeling guilty for things that they now believe that they 'created' in their lives (child death, rape, AIDs). I can see how on the surface people would have a hard time seeing the detriment of this material, especially when weighing it against other religions. But just because other religions have not found the answers, doesn't mean that Abraham Hicks has. In fact, you can think about “feel good” logic like a meth addiction. When people are on meth, the drug deludes them so much that they just want the fix. The rest of their life crumbles around them, but they don’t care, cause they feel good. So they lose their teeth and their family and their sanity, in exchange for feeling good. I understand why Abers don’t see a problem with this, but most people do. And to be honest, most don’t just feel good while their life crumbles around them. Most go to Abraham for a fix, then feel guilty when they see things not working for them, because surely it is a product of their own negative thinking.
As for the “free” comment, I will agree there is free material out there from them. Many offer free things today, regardless of their validity. Christians hand out free bibles. Scientology give free stress tests. Jehovah's witnesses are always giving me free materials. It's a teaser to get you into other materials. Have you seen Abraham Hicks’ newsletter? It's not a newsletter. It's a catalog. And if you calculate the profit they make from workshops and cruises alone, you can see that the CDs/tapes are just more easy money.
Although the message seems good hearted, anyone who truly wants to help others on a grand scale will not be asking for money from the people they are trying to help.
ReplyDeleteThis is the litmus test you always need to go by.
This is the Scientology for New Age people. Same old song and dance: "Yes, we want to help you, but it's gonna cost ya."
Did Jesus give away bread and wine, or was he charging everyone in attendance???
To reiterate - those who truly want to help others will never ask those they are trying to help for money.
The End.
Hey Josh, thanks for stopping by and commenting. I just wanted to add that to justify the cost of their seminar tickets, Abraham actually says that they participated in the decision: "It was our encouragement to Jerry and Esther to choose something that was moderate enough that anyone who really wanted to be there could." At the same time, they acknowledge that the amount needed to be "significant enough" because when you give more, you will expect to get more out of it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1sVCE9rW-o
And Jerry and Esther rake it in...
Josh, I am with you. If happiness and fulfillment were about money we would not have the socioeconimic problems we have today. I think the Aberham material is rooted in some very old [Platonic] mysteriese and has some validity but the focus on getting what 'you' want is the same pitch we get from Madison Avenue. I do believe if we practice 'good will' that the world will change and I believe there is a metaphysical reason for that. But it has little or nothing to do with money. We don't need to have this information about 'good will' channeled to us. We already have access to it.
ReplyDeleteAbraham Hicks has got to be one of the biggest frauds of this era. And believe it or not, I am very spiritual and like to listen to channelers like Bashar. But when I heard "Abraham", for some reason "they" have always freaked me out. All the things I was going through I felt like I will end up in a really bad situation due to this "law of attraction" crap they were spewing over and over. I mean they wouldn't let me breathe. Also, more and more I was listening to them I kept hearing THE SAME THING BEING REPEATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. It was like replaying the same tape.
ReplyDeleteIt was mostly from hayhouseradio and I kept giving "them" chance after chance to prove me that they are for real, until one day.. One guy asked a simple question on one of their lectures... "I want to know your experience on other planets with other beings", something like that. And "they" have answered it with... "that is not going to help you! Love is blah blah blah, and joy is blah blah blah". That is the very last time I listened to Abraham and am completely convinced it is the biggest fraud to all the new age stuff.
I like your blog. Keep these entries coming. I am glad someone has questioned this and is doing their research. So many spiritualists listening to this garbage with their jaws dropped to the floor not even knowing whether it is real or some gimmick.
peace
Hey sp, thanks for the comment. Yes, Abraham does that on several subjects (ie other planets, reincarnation, etc). Anything that they don't usually discuss, they just act like it doesn't matter and then "Blah blah blah Law of Attraction blah blah blah Law of Attraction" right along.
ReplyDeleteHi, I just wanted to say something about Amway/Quixtar here... People who made these videos, definitely gave it a very cult flavor. I know 3 people who were involved in Amway/Quixtar and it was NOT a scam. The thing is that it's an independent business- so those distributors are all different- they have their own ways of motivating people and conducting seminars. These people hit upon one person who seemed to be lying about his income. The person who quit his job was a moron- no one made him do it... It was just a part of the motivational speech which was the personal choice of some distributor to put that in his speech as an ultimate aim.
ReplyDeleteIf people didn't figure out that they were making money off the seminars then they are pretty dumb too-- it's OBVIUOS they're making money off it...I laughed when thy said it's a secret, no one tells you that! You know that when you enter the business and in fact you yourself can make money off it if you reach that stage.
The Message Of Esther Hicks Outside The Possibility Of Abraham NOT Being Real, Does Not Change The Principal Foundation Of The Quantum Potential Of Changing The Way Life Plays Out By The Shier Power Of Your Focused Believes.
ReplyDeleteBy Means Of Esther, Abraham Invites Us To Focus Our Attention Onto a New Choice. Explains Us The Importance Of NOT To Come From The Lack Of Your Choice But To Distil The Quantum Art Of Allowing It Into a Manifestation In Our Reality By Feeling As If It Already Had Been Manifested In Your Life. In The Purity Of This Exercise Secrets Not Only The Manifestation Itself, But The Speed Of Such.
Esther’s Message Outside The Abraham Dilemma, Is Surprisingly Similar To Quantum Principals Which Suggests That Time Is a Collection Of Malleable And Diverse Outcomes, The Physicist Richard Feynman, One Of The Graters Innovators Of New Thought Since Albert Einstein, Spoke To Precisely This Key Of Prophesy When He Stated: ¨We Do Not Know How To Predict What Will Happen In a Given Circumstance. The Only Thing That Can Be Predicted Is The Probability Of Different Events¨
The claim that imagining creates reality needs no more consideration than is allowed by science. It proves itself in performance! When Abraham Tells Us To Developed The Feeling As If We Had Already Accomplished Our Goal, Even Though We Have Not… Is An Art On Itself! With Scientific Quantum Principals, Obeying Powerful Laws Of Resonance And Attractions.
¨When You Declare ´I Am´ You Become God¨
So, Is Abraham a Fraud? And The Powerful Message There, Kyra? And The Life Changing Quantum Physics Involve In it, kyra? What With That? When man solves the mystery of imagining, he will have discovered the secret of causation, and that is: Imagining creates reality. Therefore, the man who is aware of what he is imagining knows what he is creating; realizes more and more that the drama of life is imaginal — not physical. All activity is at bottom imaginal. An awakened Imagination works with a purpose. It creates and conserves the desirable, and transforms or destroys the undesirable, In the Very Instant That You Change the Way That You Look at Things, The Things That You Are Looking at Will Change Accordingly to Your Believes of What Is Truth… All Thoughts Likened To Itself Are Attracted.
Abraham/Esther/Jerry… Triple Cherubic Amalgamation, Is Bringing Us a Message That Will Change The Course Of The Entire World! Understanding The Message Kyra.! Your Mundane Ego Is KEEPING You, And The Many Others Deprived Forlorn Souls That Vibrates With YOU In This Unwaveringly-Blind Site Of Yours From Understanding That Your Life Will Change When You Finally Stop Changing So Much The Opinion Of Who You Are, And What You Want To Make Of Your Selves, To attempt to change circumstances before you change your imaginal activity, is to struggle against the very nature of things.
There can be no outer change until there is first an imaginal change. Everything you do, unaccompanied by an imaginal change, is but futile readjustment of surfaces.
How do you do it? Self-abandonment! That is the secret... You must abandon yourself mentally to your wish fulfilled in your love for that state, and in so doing, live in the new state and no more in the old state! The secret of self-commission, is faith, plus love. Faith is believing what is unbelievable. Commit yourself to the feeling of the wish fulfilled, in faith that this act of self-commission will become a reality. And it must become a reality because imagining creates reality. The cementing or joining process is accomplished subjectively by feeling the reality of that which is not yet objectified.
Persisting In The Assumption That Your Desire Is Already FULFILLED…
Your World Inevitable Conforms To Your Assumptions..!
— Neville Godard
GeRude VillainSting
I am actually surfing the web, trying to find anything that proves to me that Abraham hicks is a fraud, and so far, I've only seen opinions and misinterpretations...
ReplyDeleteThis article of yours is pretty good with details, but I've seen some misinterpretations:
When you quoted them saying:
"...Don't go back and regurgitate what has already been written."
I think you are taking this completely out of context. You will have to give me the audio/video to know what exactly they were saying here. Abraham has used this word many times usually talking about the experience of life saying, you didnt come here to regurgitate what has been done before, but to experience new levels of achievements. They could mean "planned" for "written" in your quote.
I've already told you my view on Quixtar, Dateline seems to be very biased - you gotta understand that they have to make things dramatic too to sell the videos/get viewers. I don't see anything wrong in Jerry being a distributor, people want to make money in Quixtar, sell products, or seminars - doesn't matter... in fact, I feel most of their products were sold to the distributors themselves!! They were not just recruiting distributors, but customers - its a profitable consequence of network marketing, its not a "TRICK" - everyone in the financial line knows that. None of the people lied about putting in some hours a week and eventually getting big - like in any other business - some succeed, some don't.
About the foolish endorsement of John Edward...
first of all you are starting with the premise that John Edward is a fraud. That in itself is a question not a fact - I don't see how the short interview you posted goes against him at all. I don't even find the article on cold reading convincing - first, they didn't use a specific John Edward example, plus I don't see a problem in psychics asking questions - there could be different levels of psychics themselves and perhaps they themselves are trying to validate their ability to read - another discussion in itself.
So Abraham endorsing or not endorsing him doesn't make a difference in my view on the authenticity of Abraham.
About changes in the Earth - They said the changes will be not beyond what you've experienced... and to be honest, there have been a few too many natural disasters in the past few years... Volcanic ash reminds me of the recent volcano disaster in Europe, which was pretty big and affected people in different continents. There have been huge Tsunami disasters, tornadoes...to name a few. I don't think Abraham ever talked about end of the world - in fact they've disputed 2012 being the end of the world.
About Science:
and their quote.."That's how the scientist's discover new science. They start out with a hypothesis--an idea--and then others believe enough in the idea that they make it true."
I"ve actually heard this recording and you are taking it out of context. What they mean is, when there is a vibration in the universe of belief of that idea, then the hypothesis shows results, shows the stuff in material reality, it can be proven and becomes a part of daily life. I feel there are number of quantum theories out there that make perfect sense but if talked to a non-scientific mind, they will dismiss it as hoax.. so for masses, those things are still not true, and all Abraham is saying is that when enough vibration is there to accept that theory, enough proof will come by for people to accept such theories. I think even the theories that HAVE BEEN proven are still black magic to many. Some of the great physicist are doing research in ESP (some nobel prize winners), and the masses still think of it as vodoo and non-scientific.
About Schizophrenia.. again, misinterpretation and even if I interpret it the way you did, doesn't prove much.
Hey Nimita, thank you for commenting.
ReplyDeleteI don't care whether or not Amway is a scam. I bring it up because plenty of exposes have shown that Amway distributors make major profits--not from selling their products--but through motivational selling. Jerry has talked about his giving "Think and Grow Rich" seminars when he was with Amway, so it's clear he was doing this. It's not a leap to see that he's doing the same thing--only now, instead of using "Think and Grow Rich," he uses Abraham.
The quote is from Orlando, FL workshop 11/10/2007. You can listen to it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PfilwR73F0. It's from a questioner who is asking about others who claim to "receive" Abraham. Abraham explains that a lot of these so-called "receivers" are regurgitating what Abraham says and that people who are actually "receiving" from broader perspective aren't regurgitating. This is interesting because Abraham is regurgiting much of what has been written by others: http://kyrasdiary.blogspot.com/2011/03/abraham-hicks-sells-used-thought.html.
You suggest many times that I am misinterpreting things, but Abraham actually makes errors. See this video for more information on that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F99g5P2P2rM. In it, Abraham actually messes up a very common story they tell. As much as Abraham Hicks supporters would like to dismiss them as misinterpretations (even though this one clearly cannot be chocked up to such), Abraham has--many times--contradicted themselves and made mistakes.
John Edward was caught in a hot-read, which I show in this post. It clearly shows where he is trying to pass off known info as if it is from some other place. He's not an energy reader. He's a money-making-gimmick.
(see next comment)
(continued)
ReplyDelete"They said the changes will be not beyond what you've experienced." I would like to see where they said this. If they actually did, it would contradict their Joyous Survival tape where they said, "...when the great realignment is upon you, you will not question it, because it will be far beyond anything you've experienced before." You say, "...and to be honest, there have been a few too many natural disasters in the past few years." This doesn't matter. There are specific things written in A New Beginning I, which are to take place in a particular order, that have not occurred. Specific areas are discussed that were to be affected (Utah, California, Florida, Mexico) in this simultaneous event. If you have a particular disaster you are considering, I can discuss the particulars that did not follow it. You mention the volcano in Europe, but they're quote says "…volcanic ash will be experienced in all parts of your world, as the volcanoes around your earth are simultaneously activated." This quote isn't about one volcanic event in one continent. It's about volcanoes around the world being "simultaneously activated." Tsunamis and tornadoes are not even mentioned in A New Beginning I. And I don't think I suggested that they said it was the end of the world...that's why they call it, A New Beginning.
I have taken their quote on science literally. They say that "scientists start out with a hypothesis--an idea--and then others believe enough in the idea that they make it true." This suggests that it was not true to begin with. It suggests that gravity was not true until Newton formed his hypothesis and then others believed him.
I'm not sure I understand your connecting it to quantum theory. Quantum theories are more provable than LOA. And even if you don't know about them, they still are true. Even if someone was born on an island with no other humans around, I have no fear that they would still be affected by the truth that is gravity. I agree, however, with your statement, "even the theories that HAVE BEEN proven are still black magic to many." It's called evolution. Creationists don't like it very much. And with all the research that is being done in ESP, the scientific community has yet to embrace it because of the lack of empirical evidence and the history of fraud that psi-research is littered with. On the subject of schizophrenia, you allege that I have misinterpreted it, but you have no way of justifying that. Anyone who listens to it can clearly hear the absurdity of what she's saying.
Hey again, GeRude/Inouter,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to say that your discussion on quantum physics sounds more like something out of a Deepak Chopra book or the film What the Bleep Do We Know? than it does an actual look at quantum physics. And I would like to add that quantum physics doesn't prove LOA or the authenticity of Abraham.
I don't see how Jerry using his Amway knowledge to conduct seminars is contradictory to the authenticity of Abraham, in fact they themselves talk about ways of getting rich, if they themselves were not rich, it would be a scam.
ReplyDeleteAbout science, look at it this way... When a theory is not proven, even if it exists, it is NOT a REALITY for people... when it is proven - it is and was always a reality! I think perhaps you're being unable to grasp the concept of truth and reality here. Reality is merely an interpretation. When people thought earth was flat, it was their reality for all intents and purposes. Then they discovered that the Earth is round, that became their reality. Abraham is just putting their concept of vibration here and saying that slowly enough people had the vibration of a round earth and hence that theory got proven. And now well we know it's oblate causing the J2 effect. So now our reality is also very different from those people who thought it was flat.
Also, there are many theories in quantum physics that are hard to prove.. In fact it says every particle has a wave and particle nature for example, which makes a human being itself have that with infinitely long wavelengths.. Does that mean we are essentially non localized...hmm kinda is very hard to prove. Also, only recently NASA's probe b proved einstein's general relativity ( was in the news last week)- it was just a theory before... And which has again changed our reality on how to look at things. Newtonian principles for astrophysics no longer hold.
ReplyDeleteSorry about " not beyond what you've experienced, I thought it was in your post... I thought there was a not there.
ReplyDeleteAbout ur post on Esther's past..
Abraham/Esther has talked about how when Jerry invited her for his wedding she said she won't go and neither should he. Abraham joked about it but says that was sorta best spur of the moment thing Esther did. Then they also say that everyone in Esther's life told her not to go for Jerry but she knew it was the right thing to do.
The points you mentioned in this post seem like misinterpretations, I never said everything could be a misinterpretation - like the audio you posted for crop circles. But then again that one is just 16 seconds long, few more words could change the entire talk.
ReplyDeleteHey again Namita,
ReplyDeleteEsther and Jerry got rich by selling these sorts of metaphysical laws to people (not selling soaps or appliances). Now they do the same thing under the name of Abraham. That is why I bring up their Amway past. Also, I bring it up because Law of Attraction, a well-known metaphysical concept, is promoted in Amway circles (particularly with authors such as Hill and Peale). Jerry and Esther claim no knowledge of LOA pre-Abraham, yet Jerry has said that Ernest Holmes, Napoleon Hill, and Charles Fillmore were his early mentors, pre-Abraham. All of these authors discuss the Law of Attraction just as Abraham does. I find it very suspicious that he would claim no knowledge of it despite his exposure to these authors and Amway (where this metaphysical law is promoted).
I understand where you are trying to take this conversation about truth and reality, but you are talking about belief. Gravity exists whether or not anyone knows about it. The heliocentric universe is the way it is whether or not anyone knows about it. Evolution happened whether or not anyone knows that is the case. People can believe differently, but it doesn't change the facts. Similarly, a person can believe they have been cured of AIDs, but when it ravages their body and they die, I would say that their belief was pretty pointless. It didn't change the reality or truth.
The key difference between LOA, quantum theory, and the theory of relativity is that LOA is unfalsifiable; the theory of relativity and quantum theory are falsifiable. By the nature of LOA, you could never devise a test to disprove it. No matter what the outcome was, you could say that it just proves that the experimenters affected the results. This puts it in the same category as fairies and reincarnation because, similarly, they can not be scientifically assessed. Quantum theory and relativity can be proven wrong and they are scrutinized by science every day. Einstein's theory of relativity has been tested various times. The one you mention proves key elements, but the theory of relativity has been tested and studied and found to stand up against scientific analysis. Similarly, quantum theory has been (and is being) tested and holds up very well to scientific study. LOA cannot boast the same because it is inherently unscientific.
As for your comment about misinterpretations, I find it interesting that a lot of your rebuttals were your interpretations (but not how they were actually worded by Abraham). Also, if you want to hear the full clip, it is available through Abraham Hicks, so I don't see why you wouldn't just get it and listen for yourself.
The only reason I bring up Esther and Jerry's interesting marital situation is because they so cleverly evade the subject whenever they are interviewed (just as they evade discussing Amway).
ReplyDeleteAbout misinterpretations... I agree that rebuttles are my own interpretations - but that only shows that the same thing they said can be taken in different ways. What you say is "their words" is your interpretation. So the fact that what they said can be taken in the way I am interpreting it, you can't really bash them on that, because they can easily say that you didn't get it right. So, its hard to prove them wrong in things they say like this.
ReplyDeleteEinstein's special relativity theory had been proven before, General relativity is what NASA's probe proved, gravitational lensing had been discovered before, but nothing had proven time warp - which this probe did. Then there is string theory, Theory of Everything etc. which are still not proven. Anyway.
Yes, vibration or belief. The thing is, you are taking belief out of the equation and Abraham only talks about life in terms of belief. They say there is no truth/reality, but only an interpretation - belief. Which makes perfect sense to me(not to mention Einstein also said Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one). I *think* the only reality Abe says is LOA and other laws. Abe has talked about Gravity as an agreement of the physical world. Anyway, ok take heliocentrism for example to think in Abe's terms - for the people who believed that Earth was the center of the universe, for them, sun rose from the East, set in the west because it circled around the Earth. Then, somehow enough vibration was there for heliocentric solar system, and that got proven. Now, personally I've seen the facts hardly matter but people live in a world of their own interpretaions and THAT becomes their reality. But lets talk about hard facts here, and since Abe talks about thought manifestation - there is absolutely no way of proving that the whole solar system itself did not change. Before insert_date, Earth was ACTUALLY the center of the solar system, after insert_date Sun was the center. What if that happened, and we will never get to know about it?.. I am not saying that actually happened, but just trying to show you another perspective. So since Abe is rooted in their philosophy of beliefs creating material reality(which they say is an interpretation anyway), what their saying here about science doesn't go against them.
Belief about being cured of AIDS - we can talk about the extensions of placebo effect here and say that if someone thought they're healthy, they will be..if conditions got worse, they definitely had some vibration/belief/fear somewhere of not being healthy... Millions of books sold on this, many people made money on it, related to LOA. My cousin is a doctor and she told me cases of AIDS patients where they've had AIDS for 20 years and nothing happens to them, and suddenly when they get to know about it, their condition deteriorates.
Again, selling metaphysical laws, or cosmetics - their ways are from "get rich" books... that doesn't matter to me. I don't mind them being millionaires and following whatever ways, but I do have a problem with them charging so much for their seminars - the whole thing about spirituality comes up (for a lot of people too) - wouldn't they want poor people to benefit too? But then, Abraham has been asked about this and they say you need to believe in abundance and not poverty and we will never come down to your level, you have to come up to our level. - they have their explanation, whether I agree or not, is another story.
I read Peale some 15 years back, he doesn't use the term "LOA" but yes, talks about positive thinking and imaging. Although Abe's take on LOA is slightly different - they emphasize on feelings and emotions which Peale didn't do. They could use that as their argument here - that those authors didn't quite talk about the same thing.
Also, just because someone doesn't want to talk about the past, doesn't imply they did something "wrong" in their past. I've seen others too, like Eckhart Tolle who doesn't talk about his past, his philosophy is rooted in present moment awareness, he says past is irrelevant. Abraham says we are forward looking beings, perhaps they're trying to practice their own principles. I don't see why they should be sharing their private lives with the media either, they are entitled to their privacy... perhaps with their friends, family and acquaintances they are much more open.
ReplyDeleteI did find sometihng fascinating about them, they don't have health insurance, as they believe in well being and abundance.
Hey again Namita,
ReplyDeleteBack on the misinterpretations, what I was saying is that my "interpretations" don't involve me rewording their statements. I am actually taking them at their word. For instance, with the regurgitation statement: "Don't go back and regurgitate what has already been written." I'm saying that is what they said, and then I am pointing out the hypocrisy. They do just that. I didn't have to interpret it some other way. That's what it says.
I didn't deny what you'd said about relativity. I was only saying that there is a big difference between things that are falsifiable and things that are unfalsifiable. LOA is unfalsifiable. That makes it a china teapot in the sky or a invisible dragon in Sagan's garage. It is a scientific claim that has no way of being tested, thus making it very unscientific. Whereas tests can be designed for relativity and quantum theories (as you have said yourself with your example).
What you are saying about reality is my whole point. You say, "there is absolutely no way of proving that the whole solar system itself did not change." That's what is ridiculous about Abraham's claim about science. They have no way of proving that. I don't have to disprove it. I'd like to use Bertrand Russell's words because they are so much better than mine: "If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense." Their claim about science (like their claims about so many other things) is ridiculous. And it does go against them because even though it goes with what they are saying, it's nonsense.
I know about the placebo effect, and it doesn't cure AIDs. What you may be referring to with your story is the nocebo effect, which is the reverse of the placebo effect. Show me a medically verified case of someone using the Abraham materials to cure themselves of AIDs (and is cured), and I'll be impressed. Till then, the idea that AIDs can be cured by "releasing resistance" is ridiculous.
My point is that there's a big difference between making millions by selling someone else the idea of getting rich and making millions by using that knowledge to go into another industry and getting rich. I know that Law of Attraction can be found in Peale's book Why Some Positive Thinkers Get Powerful Results. Hill's The Law of Success discusses it several times, and he talks about attitude and mood many times in relation with the law. As I said, other authors used the term, Law of Attraction, by name, just as Abraham does. They include Atkinson, Fillmore, and Holmes.
My only point with the post about their marriage is that they do have things to hide, and there's more to what they are hiding than just that. They equally evade the Amway subject, which is actually very telling. They always talk about how Jerry was financially successful before Abraham, but don’t say what from. Btw, they don't need health insurance. I'm sure they can pay for everything in cash these days ; )
Here are some other Peale books that discuss LOA:
ReplyDeleteThe Positive Principle Today: How to Renew and Sustain the Power
Have a Great Day
Power of the Plus Factor
It is even referenced once in The Power of Positive Thinking
btw let me tell you that thought manifestation/LOA - whatever you want to call it, DID NOT start with the authors in 1900s. It is deeply rooted in the Eastern religious philosophies and has been around for centuries. Even the vibrational aspect of the Universe that Abe talks about is there in the vedic philosophy. So obviously, it is all used thought.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is talking about the same thing, Louis Hay, Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer, Abraham - just different ways and slightly different interpretations.
The youtube video you posted in your comment, says:
"When you are recieving from source energy, You are not finding the words that have already been written, you are finding new explanation of it"...
They are talking about "new explanations of it".. and I feel thats what ALL these authors are doing. Lets say LOA/thought manifestation and an all powerful source energy exists, then the Eastern philosophies were right, so were the authors in early 1900s and so are these people, because they are all receiving from the SAME SOURCE energy. Their interpretations and explanations will obviously be slightly different because they are humans with their perspectives, not merged with Source.
I don't see how this video defies that - they are talking about people who are regurgitating, because they are not connected to source (they didn't say there couldn't be others who are doing the same as them) and even though what they are talking ABOUT has been there for centuries, they claim they are not regurgitating because they explain it in new ways, new perspectives.
They talked about "new explanations" and honestly, I'll tell you about my experience - I read "Secret" much before I even knew of Abe, and I didn't like it. The same philosophy that I have been reading for the past 15 years, but didn't like Secret at all. Abe however says the same thing but in a different way. Secret was written by Rhonda Byrne, who herself does not claim to be talking/receiving from Source (so according to Abe here, she would be regurgitating), but Abraham is connected to source or so they claim , even if it is a similar philosophy they both talk about, they are not regurgitating(so they say). And my personal experience - I did find Abe's explanations MUCH MUCH deeper than Rhonda's and if this whole source deal was true(which they claim), Abe is right in this video, I don't think they are regurgitating (coming from a person who has been reading these books for 15 years) but Rhonda Byrne was.
Think of it this way (assuming God/source exists), Christ talked about love and forgiveness, so did Krishna. So did all the priests in the churches and temples. Christ and Krishna were receiving from source, (even though they talked about the same philosophy - no plagirism here because God would tell both the same thing), but priests were/are regurgitators.
So just because certain authors wrote about it before Abe, doesn't mean Abe is regurgitating them, both could have received teh same thing from the Source, and obv understood and conveyed with their interpretations.
Again, you can't read/hear something without interpreting it your way... To me, I understand the very statement different from what you do. They said don't regurgitate, but they say they are not regurgitating, just explaning in new ways.
ReplyDeletePlacebo effect doesn't cure AIDS? I never said it does, although now that you mention it, if AIDS did have a pill cure, there is no reason why Placebos won't work here. I was just talking about "extentions" of it, i.e. MIND AFFECTING YOUR BODY for better or for worse (Placebo or Nacebo). If you don't think your mind affects your body - then you need to go back to the placebo effect.
Again, your "science" :
"That's how the scientist's discover new science. They start out with a hypothesis--an idea--and then others believe enough in the idea that they make it true. "
Abe's definition of TRUE is different from yours. Truth is an interpretation so they mean it becomes true for you, after a lot of people believe in it. This statement is a perspective, a different way of looking at inventions and discoveries - I don't see how it goes against them at all.
The problem is that you are STARTing with the premise that Abe is fraud.
Also, Considering that they are on the drive all the time, I'd say its pretty interesting they dont' have health insurance, they are also not very young. You accuse Abe followers of finding ways to interpret Abe's doings/sayings to promote/justify them, I think you're doing exactly the same here.
Nimita (sorry for spelling your name wrong last time),
ReplyDeleteThe term "Law of Attraction" WAS created by New Thought authors. Abraham didn't even come up with their own terminology to describe what it was. The authors you mention who talk about "forgiveness" never claimed they had never heard of the word "forgiveness" till it was given to them by God or Source or whatever. Esther and Jerry both have said explicitly that they had never heard the words "Law of Attraction" before Abraham. Also, their explanation of "birds of a feather" and the analogy of it being like a magnet (and various other explanations of the law) were created by New Thought authors. Abraham took their terminology and those ways of explaining it (and more). Period. When authors claim to have been inspired to the terminology and explanations that other authors come up with, that's called plagiarism. And Abraham's "interpretation" isn't even all that different from these authors. "That which is like unto itself is drawn." That's a lot like William Juvenal Colville's definition of the Law of Attraction: "Everything is a link to attract that which is like itself."
As I just stated, they don't find new explanations. In fact, their current "deconstructing thoughts" idea was lifted from Prentice Mulford's book THOUGHTS ARE THINGS. Even their stream analogy comes from William Walker Atkinson's THOUGHT VIBRATION OR THE LAW OF ATTRACTION IN THE THOUGHT WORLD. I don't disagree that Rhonda Byrne is regurgitating the words of Abraham, but she is not doing it anymore than Abraham is doing it with other New Thought authors. And as I just explained, they borrow their explanations from past authors. If the same source is giving people the same words, then Abraham's statement about regurgitation is wrong because broader perspective would be giving people the same words and explanations (like it supposedly is to Esther and Jerry). And of course they would claim that they aren't regurgitating after they say that others are. Why would Abraham say that they were regurgitating after saying that people who did were not receiving from broader perspective? But anyone who has studied New Thought authors who came up with the "Law of Attraction" knows that Esther and Jerry took it from that (it was not inspired).
As for the placebo effect, I never--in anything that I say--suggest there is not a mind/body connection. But I make it clear that to take that to dangerous extremes (as Abraham's material does) is irrational and unfounded. The placebo and nocebo effects can be studied and assessed and we have no evidence to show that they can cure AIDs, cancer, or Parkinson's. Again, when I see someone cured of AIDs because of "releasing resistance" or some other similar method, then I'll be impressed.
In regards to the statement about science, you are the one redefining how "true" is used in this context. It doesn't say they make it true for themselves. It says they make it true. Period. You are the one seeing more than is on the page. And it's interesting that you would say that I'm starting from the premise that Abe is a fraud. I was actually using their materials in my life for MANY years before I started seeing things like this and realizing the absurdity of it all (I've even spoken with Abraham). As for health insurance, I don't know that they don't have health insurance, but as I said, they have plenty of money to take care of it regardless.
And you keep saying that I am needing to justify/interpret this to fit my intent, but do you think that I had to do any interpreting to see the clear error in this video?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F99g5P2P2rM. And what about the crop circle contradiction. It is a clear contradiction, and if you would go and listen to the audio for yourself, you would see that.
I think I need to bring in here something that I feel is being lost through all this back and forth. It isn't my job to disprove Abraham or LOA. Back to the Russell quote:
ReplyDelete"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense."
Abraham and LOA are china teapots. Esther and Jerry make no attempt to prove that Abraham exists, and as I said, LOA being unfalsifiable makes it untestable. So how do you intend to prove that these china teapots exist?
I make a good case for their lack of authenticity, but the real truth is that the burden of proof is on people who think this stuff is real to prove that it exists--not for me to disprove that they exist. I can't disprove the invisible dragon in Carl Sagan's garage, but it doesn't mean that there is one. As Sagan put it: “If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder.”
You think I am redefining 'true' because you are not considering Abe's other recordings where they talk about it multiple times and on and on about truth being a perspective, an interpretation, a viewpoint. I have heard this science recording and I know what they were talking about - I can't remember however if I did hear the words that true is an interpretation or not in THIS one. Sometimes each recording builds upon the previous question's answer too. So if they talked about it already in the seminar, they might not talk about it again in this question assuming people are aware of their use of the term. You're taking a subset of the data and calling it the result.
ReplyDeleteNo, its the same broader perspective, gives the same ideas based on the asking, but does not mean at all that people translate it the same. You cannot imagine what is going on in another's head, and you cannot interpret it the way they do even if you think you agree, it is still a different perspective.
I don't care if anyone says they created THE TERM. The ideas/topics have been around for CENTURIES in different languages, perhaps the term is even a translated term - doesn't make a difference. To me it was like "Oh so they ALSO talk about the law of attraction"...just like Louis Hay, Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer and the Eastern philosophies...Deepak Chopra also talks about "like being drawn into itself" - in fact very similar words were used. If you do listen to a lot of their recordings and compare with others, they do have new things to say on the SAME TOPICS.
On that note, I am not sure why Jerry wanted to get the term patented, if it really is true, and what his rationale was behind it - it could have been near the release of Secret.. I don't know. Abraham does mention again n again that Jerry and Esther are normal people, not saints. Also, many times, Esther's perspective also comes through as Abraham and Esther are merged. Abraham does also say that they tend to use terms that people will understand, so perhaps using an already used term is easier.
Mind/Body connection- dangerous extremes is again an opinion, if a theory is true, it should hold true entirely/for everything, not for some. I agree that its not mainstream and we don't have overwhelming evidence, but there ARE a lot of cases of Cancer being cured like that, doctors like using the term "spontaneous remission" - and saying they don't have an explanation for why it got cured. You gotta also understand that its a multi-billion dollar industry, they will never agree easily on belief healing. You can only count on personal accounts here and there are MANY.
No, I don't keep saying that you need to justify/interpret.. please re-read my last paragraph. I said you claim Abers do that, and you are doing the SAME HERE (was talking about the health insurance aspect there).
My first line "Again, you can't read/hear something without interpreting it your way"
I meant 'you' as in 'people' - wasn't referring to you.
btw, I would love to hear your own experience of Abraham and why and how you came to this conclusion.
About "True" btw, the whole new age thinking is based on this aspect of TRUE being an interpretation. After heisenberg's uncertainty principle got proven, many scientists' version of reality and truth was shaken. After all, reality was suddenly based on the observer and only a possibility of existence was true, not the existence itself.
ReplyDeleteAlso, like I said, no theory is TRUE until it gets proven, I am not sure why there is even a discussion on this. But after the theory is proven, it was always true. Abe is just bringing in their belief aspect to make it true. If you have a problem with their belief and manifestation aspect, then thats another discussion. But their words on science don't contradict their earlier theories, and does not even contradict science itself if you look at how science has evolved over the years.
NASA did 6 missions to the moon and declared moon to be dry. There were newspaper articles on it. It was true back then. And today we know lunar regolith contains water. This is the truth today.
Actually if you can understand that the reality is not as solid as you think it is, in regards to everything - your relationships, your job, career, the material things around you... it will be a very different world for you.
You are interpreting "true" by saying what you think it means within the context of their work. I am taking the words literally.
ReplyDeleteIf it's true that no one can regurgitate these ideas (because everyone is speaking from a different perspective), then Abraham is wrong still because then no one is regurgitating their words. Other authors who discuss LOA or metaphysics usually credit their sources. Louise Hay credits Ernest Holmes. Chopra and Dyer credit their inspirations. Esther and Jerry do not credit anyone with LOA (except Abraham, of course). And why would they attempt to trademark the term if, as you suggest, Abraham was using the term because people were familiar with it? Btw, it was around the time of The Secret.
It is a dangerous extreme because there is no proof that any of these methods work beyond the placebo effect (which cannot cure AIDs, cancer, Parkinson's). Spontaneous remission is a known part of cancer and can just as likely occur to someone who doesn't have any belief of wellness as someone who does. Similarly, studies have shown that positive thinking does not affect how quickly people recover from cancer.
As for using personal stories as evidence, there are so many cognitive biases that lead people to so many irrational conclusions that it just doesn't lead us anywhere. If we did, we would believe that aliens are abducting people to impregnate them with alien-humanoids and Satanists are abducting people for human sacrifices. Anecdotes are not evidence. Also, when people have attempted to follow up on healing stories that extended beyond the placebo effect, they have found people to be lying, dead, or dying.
And you said in your last paragraph, "You accuse Abe followers of finding ways to interpret Abe's doings/sayings to promote/justify them, I think you're doing exactly the same here." I assumed you were accusing me of the same thing (finding ways to interpret to justify what I thought). That's what I was commenting on.
I will write something up on my own experiences. In the meantime, I talk a lot about it in my youtube comments.
Your entire discussion about “truth” that follows is just not how it is. It doesn't matter what people believe. Gravity existed even when we didn't know about it. Evolution happened even when we didn't know about it. It doesn't matter if we believed that Adam and Eve populated the earth because it still wasn't true. And no amount of people believing that was true made it so.
As for the observer effect, you are discussing it from a very New Age perspective. The observer effect is just talking about how the observer effects what he observes. For instance, let’s say I want to measure all the water in a gully. I spoon it out into a measuring cup and some spills out as I’m doing so. The very act of my trying to measure the water has affected the measurement. I’m not sure how this relates to the ideas you’re talking about.
No matter what one believes there are always skeptics. There are always naysayers. Take a look at Jesus Christ for instance. Plenty of nay sayers there.
ReplyDeleteI like what Jerry and Esther Hicks has to say about one's thoughts.
Take a criminal, or murderer if you will or a theif or a rapist..etc. Where have their thoughts been?
Take someone who is prosperous and a pillar of society and a basically good person.Where have their thoughts been?
I hope Jerry and Esther Hicks never stop spreading the word that our thoughts create our reality because it's obvious it does.
If anyone would like to discuss this further with me....email me at bellamoonglow@aol.com
Hey Anonymous, thank you for commenting.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who's not all that hot about Jesus either, I'm happy there are skeptics there too.
As for the thoughts of people who murder and rape, the problem is that we aren't just looking at their thoughts. We're looking at little girls who have been captured, raped, tortured and saying, "Where have their thoughts been?" and erroneously assuming they are attracting those things. We're looking at people who have had horrifying experiences and saying that their thoughts made those things happen (people with terminal illnesses, people who have had tragic accidents). This is irrational, unfounded, and utterly irresponsible. Even worse, through these horrifying things, those like Abraham are saying "All is well."
The statement "our thoughts create our reality" has some truth to it, but if you are suggesting that our thoughts create the totality of our reality, which I assume you are, there is nothing obvious about that being the case. The statement begs the question more than anything else.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHey INOUTER,
ReplyDeleteI approved one of several comments briefly but had to remove it. It appears that you did not properly credit the author of some of the content. If you go back and attribute the author properly, then I will post.
Thanks,
kyra
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHey again INOUTER (aka Gerude),
ReplyDeleteIt seems that part of you're post is quoting from Parallel Worlds by Michio Kaku, but nowhere in your post do you mention this (and it appears you are attributing it to Max Born). If you will just insert Kaku's book as the Source of your information, then I will post the content.
Thanks again,
kyra
*Kira, The Shallow Statement You Are Making. Doesn’t Hurts When You Say Things Like This?
ReplyDelete(“*Where have their thoughts been?" and erroneously assuming they are attracting those things”)
Nothing appears or continues in being by a power of its own. Events happen because comparatively stable imaginal activities created them, and they continue in being only as long as they receive such support.
__NEVILLE GODDARD
A.- All Energy Occurs In Discrete Packages, Called Quanta. (The Quantum Of Light For Example, Is The Photon, The Quanta Of Weak Force Is Called The W- And Z-Boson, The Quantum For The Strong Force Is Called Gluon, And The Quantum For Gravity Is Called The Graviton, Which Has Yet To Be Seen In The Laboratory.)
B.- Matter Is Represented By Point Particles, But The Probability Of Finding The Particle Is Given By a Wave. The Wave In Turn, Obeys a Specific Wave Equation (The Schrödinger’s Wave Equation)
C.- Before An Observation Is Made, An Object Exists In All Possible States Simultaneously. To Determine Which State The Object Is In, We Have To Make An Observation, Which ¨Collapses¨ The Wave Function, And The Object Goes Into a Definite State. The Very Act Of Observation Destroys The Wave Functions, And The Object Now Assumes a Definite Reality. The Wave Functions Has Served Its Purpose: It Has Given Us The Precise Probability Of Finding The Object In That Particular State.
__MAX BORN (from Parallel Worlds by Michio Kaku)
Kyra,
The Raped Woman, And The Rapist, The Victim, And The Victimizer, They All Dance An Invisible Waltz Of Attracting Forces That Governs The Totality, Of Their Lives, And The Entire Universe Unfolds. For Someone Like *Kyra So Mundane As To State Something Like: (*As someone who's not all that hot about Jesus either) Must Be Extremely Difficult To Sense The Profoundly Delicate Truth In This. If One Day You Were To Stop Your Wild Chase, Giving Your Self The Opportunity To Observe The Absolute Relation That Exist Between What You Thing With That You Experience… You Will Come To Realized, Reality Is Not The Mundane, As It Seized From Being Spirit Remains.
"You see yonder fields?
Don't be surprised when you see sesamum:
The sesamum was sesamum,
The corn was corn,
The silence and the darkness knew
So is a man's fate born"
__POEM FOUND IN ONE OF THE DEAD SEA PAPYRUS SCROLLS
*Kyra, Saying Things:
(*The statement "our thoughts create our reality" has some truth to it, but if you are suggesting that our thoughts create the totality of our reality, the statement begs a question more than anything else.)
Kyra, In The 42nd Chapter Of Isaiah, We Read: "Behold, the former things have come to pass and new I now declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them." A Literal Rendering Of The First Part Of That Verse Could Be: "The former things, behold they have come, but man will not believe the individual who experienced them."
___THE BOOK OF ISAIAH
*Kyra, Saying Things: ("*As Someone “*Who's not all that hot about Jesus”), Is Only Natural To Think That The Words In The Bible, To You, Must Have The Same Value As The Lyrics Of Heavy-Metal Drugs Songs.
The Discoveries Of Subatomic Particles Behavioral Patters When Observed, in Laboratories All Around The Word… When The Observer Changes The Collapse Of The Wave Function Making The Object To Assume a Definite Reality… To You Kyra, This Science Has The Same Value As Watching Apes Having Sex, Your Next Statement Will Be: (“*Me Who's not all that hot about Science”)
For The World Only Bears Witness Of The Use Or Misuse Of Imagination. There Is Not a Thing In Any Ones Lives That Has Not Come From The Imaginal World First. In Essence This Message Is Brought To Us In a Fun, And Happy Go Lucky Way Of Esther/Abraham/Jerry Consortium… We Are Fascinated With Abraham.
*
(¨*This is irrational, unfounded, and utterly irresponsible. Even worse, through these horrifying things, those like Abraham are saying….
---*KYRA)
It Was a Report Completed By Max Born, Very Good Kyra! In Deed, It Was Mentioned In The Book PARALLEL WORLDS By Michio Kaku, And Many Others Too... Is Not That You Are Looking For Excuses Not Post My Comment? Is It Kyra?
ReplyDeleteHey INOUTER (aka Gerude),
ReplyDeleteSorry it took so long to get your comment through. The quote that you used I can only find in Parallel Worlds. And it is prefaced with: "So the postulates of Bohr's Copenhagen school, loosely speaking, can be summarized as follows:" As I only found this quote in that book, and all references to the quote cited that book as the source (at least, the ones I found), I assumed that it was the source. I have found nothing to suggest that Kaku is not the source of that quote, and nothing that presents it as a quote from Max Born. If you can tell me the book or article that reveals Max Born as the originator, feel free to let me know.
As for your comment, it appears that you are using quantum physics to bolster ideas about creating one's own reality. This is quantum mysticism--not quantum physics. Quantum physics is talking about how things work at the quantum level, not at the macro world, and there's nothing to suggest otherwise.
Thanks for the comment.
The Theory Of Everything In Witch Albert Einstein Worked So Hard For The Last 30 Years Of His Life Unsuccessfully, Is In Essence The Correlation Between Matter And Wave, The Unified Field Theory , Which Would Unify His Theory Of Gravity With Maxwell’s Theory Of Electromagnetism… We Still In The Process To Understand The Deeply Knitted Web Between Matter And Spirit. The Mysticism Into The Nature Of Gravity And Light, Will Not Give Us The Ability To ¨Read The Mind Of God¨ Kyra?
ReplyDeleteMysticism Kyra, Comes From The Word Mystery…
Einstein Was Not The First One To Suggest The Relationship Between Electromagnetism And Gravity.
Dr. Michael Faraday, Working At The Royal Institution In London In The 19th Century, Performed Some Of The First Experiments To Prove The Relationship Between These Two(2) Pervasive Forces. (Matter and Spirit)
The Mystery Between What I Thing, How I Feel, And What I Experience In My Live… Kyra, Is All One Thing, From The Quantum Level, To The Macro Infiniti, We Are It.!
So What Is It Kyra? Is The Cat Dead, Or Is The Cat Alive? It Is Not Dead, Not Alive, Until You Open The Box..!! Sealed Inside The Box, There Are Waves That Represents The Cat Being Both, Dead And Alive At The Same Time. Once Finally The Box Is Open, The Measurement Processes By An Outside Observer, Allows Us To Collapse The Wave And Determine The Precise State Of The Cat, Dead Or Alive; By ¨Shining¨ a Light Inside The Box, The Wave Function Collapses, The Object Suddenly Assumes a Definite State.
To Bolster Ideas About Creating One’s Own Reality By Understanding The Mystery That Bridges Thoughts with Reality, Kyra…mmm… Science And Mysticism, Both Will Be Understood Soon As Being One Thing, In Such a Way, That Even Some One Like Kyra Will Comprehended, And Will Be Able To Collapse Her Own Wave Into a Definite States In Her Life, By Her Very Own Creation At Her Own Command, And… The Mountain Will Move With The Solitary Power Of Her Own Faith.
Esther/Jerry, And The Mystery Of Abraham, Bringing Us The A-B-C In a Child Like Form, Learning To Collapse The Wave Into a Definite State Of All Possibilities That Exist At The Same Time, In The Same Space… The Secret Lays In How Much You Believe In It, How Strong Is The Light You Shine Into The Box Of Your Life, How Pure The Observation, How Long Can You Focus On To Your Life’s Choices… The Cat Kyra, Is Dead Or Alive?
Esther/Jerry, And The Mystery Of Abraham, Are Undoubtedly The Nicest Thing Ever Happen To Me.!
GeRude VillainSting
Ps
*This is irrational, unfounded, and utterly irresponsible. Even worse, through these horrifying things, those like Abraham….
---*KYRA
(my friend Kyra, tell me… is your cat agonizing in here?)
Hey Gerude,
ReplyDeleteThank you for bringing up Schrodinger's cat. It perfectly shows what I'm trying to say. The concept of Schrodinger's cat was made as a criticism against quantum physics. It wasn't a good criticism because it made the erroneous assumption that quantum physics would apply to the macro world the same way it did to the quantum world, which it doesn't. When people try to apply quantum physics to the macro world and inject spirit or consciousness into it, it's considered quantum mysticism.
That said, my cat is just fine. Nothing you have presented extends beyond common misunderstandings about quantum physics.
Beyond the labels and names, Really Kyra… I want to ask you: Do you find a better way to believe/conduct ones life?
ReplyDelete* You are a physical extension of that which is non-physical.
* You are here in this body because you chose to be here.
* The basis of your life is freedom; the purpose of your life is joy.
* You are a creator; you create with your every thought.
* Anything that you can imagine is yours to be or do or have.
* You are choosing your creations as you are choosing your thoughts.
* The Universe adores you, for it knows your broadest intentions.
* Relax into your natural well-being. All is well.
* You are a creator of thought ways on your unique path of joy.
* Actions to be taken and money to be exchanged are by-products of your focus on joy.
* You may appropriately depart your body without illness or pain.
* You cannot die; you are everlasting life.
Our bodies exist, in the physical world, which provides an environment for our activity and growth on earth and offers us nourishment, stimulation and joy. Likewise, there is a spiritual dimension of the universe the invisible spirit world- which serves as the environment for our spirits. Our spirit is the internal counterpart to our physical body, and the spirit world is the invisible counterpart to the physical world in a different dimension, inter-penetrating the physical world and the universe. While on earth we exist in both worlds at once, in effect connecting the two. For this reason, people on occasion can have visions and communicate with the dead. While most people are prepared to admit belief in some kind of life after death, fewer accept the proposition that during our physical lifetimes we are existing in two realms at the same time, a material one, and a spiritual one. There is an invisible spiritual world surrounding this physical one, interconnected in some subjective way, from where we can manipulate the outcome of our physical realm.
Kyra, the technique called "The Pruning Shears of Revision". used by this visionary man known as ¨Neville¨ uses the inter-penetration of each other realm to make it work, ¨Matter And Spirit¨ firmly interacting with the believe that if you will wisely and daily use the ¨Pruning Shears Of Revision¨ that you, or anyone, will find there is no objective beyond our ability to realize, and that is meant seriously, no objective beyond your ability can be realize.
The secret is to believe/conduct/understand how we simultaneously live in the two realms, for the most part, we are unaware of it, we must remember that there are many things in the natural world that exist beyond the range of our five physical senses. For example, we cannot see infra-red light or x-rays, or hear sounds above or below certain frequencies. Nevertheless, x-rays and high and low frequency sound vibrations do exist. In the same way, even though we cannot perceive a spiritual world through our physical senses, it exists all around us.
The discoveries of modern science in here Kyra, lend us credence to this prospect, whereas in prior times scientists thought of the material world as constructed of solid, though minute, blocks of matter, they now believe this is not the case. Rather, what we think of as the material world seems to consist of invisible patterns of energy. The implications of this theory with regard to the existence of a spiritual dimension are clear. Indeed, it is probably such a discovery as this that gave rise to Albert Einstein's celebrated remark that his work was spiritual, involving the discovery of where matter ends and spirit begins.
Esther Hicks and the non-physical entities called Abraham , shows us the teachings are based on this experience, and the teachings includes that we create our own reality through our thoughts, that our emotions are constantly guiding us toward where we want to go, and that life is supposed to be fun. The essence of Abraham–Hicks' teachings have chance the life of millions of people, including my own, and those near me!
Well… Except yours, my dear Kyra.!
Hey Gerude,
ReplyDeleteNothing that modern science has discovered supports the "Teachings in Brief" (nor do they lend them any credence). The "Teachings in Brief" beg the question--they don't answer them.
hahaha it is funny because you are clearly not in alignment with anything and are just looking at what exists to point out what is wrong with it. so sad that you create this blog i feel sorry for you...why dont you try to find a better feeling thought instead, your life might get better
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment.
hahaha it is funny because you are clearly not in alignment with anything and are just looking at what exists to point out what is wrong with it. so sad that you create this blog i feel sorry for you...why dont you try to find a better feeling thought instead, your life might get better
Actually, since removing these teachings from my life, things have improved significantly.
yes, I would wonder why conscious would not know the difference between Scz and MPD (which I am proud to say I have learned about myself) It is one of the many things I question about how conscious is not more all knowing as I would think it would be.
ReplyDeletehi, im a 25 yr old guy and ive "followed" abraham-hicks for 4 yrs or so.
ReplyDeletethanks for bringing up your points - it's interesting to read from your perspective. i feel 50% of what you are writing is valid claims, 50% not.
ive only touched upon the abraham of year 2000 and onwards so, for example, the natural disastors claim and the crop circles claims seems very off from the "abraham" i know.
sure, it could all be a hoax - but aside from a book or two i have downloaded all my mp3-workshops:) (so i havnt paid for them;) and i will continue to listen to them cuz they always uplifts my mood and my life has transformed immensely after i came across their material.
as you wrote - the law of attraction could be true - but it doesnt make abraham channeled through esther true - that is correct and a valid claim - and it could be true - that it is a hoax. from my point of view - i've tried to read other authors and books on law of attraction but it's only the wording from esther hicks that really gets to me deep inside. so i guess it's individual how u respond to a material - wether it's true or not - i guess is irrevelant. even if they have ripped me off money they have helped me tremendously so really - for me it's a win win. i guess here it's about how u view things, not only about abraham hicks,but how you view the world - life - what your focus is upon - the positive and uplifting things in life or the negative, sceptism, critizing others, etc ....
if im being ripped off by esther and jerry hicks - i dont mind.
now im not someone who listen to every word from esther hicks and follows them promptly. there are things that ive heard esther say that just didnt resonate with me - so i left it out.
then there is also the possibility that esther could channel a spirit through her that IS all-knowing.
i also read somewhere online that a former person who worked for them said that she indeed channels these spirits - but that they left like 20 yrs ago and that she is continuing their legacy - or faking it - cos .... cos of money? cos... she wants to help people?
her possible motives could be anything - only she knows...
and im off rambling!
thanks again for the post.
cheers
Hey europeaustralia,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. I appreciate your "rambling" quite a bit. My own ramblings here on the blog are really just trying to encourage people to be discerning of the information that Esther claims that she is receiving.
A lot of people, like you, say something to the effect that, "if im being ripped off by esther and jerry hicks - i dont mind." I can understand that. At the same time, there are those of us who do mind, and I make this sort of information available for them.
Hey Kyra,
ReplyDeleteInteresting post. You definitely do a good job of espousing the materialist/rationalist viewpoint, and pointing out that these folks could be selling something that is not exactly as claimed.
I wasn't going to comment because I had already realized that it is quite likely that "Abraham" is just a mental creation of Esther. (Side note: now explain to me where those mental creations come from... you can't, because there's nothing in modern science that explains how creativity actually happens ... I'm a scientist, and I've looked deeply at this - starting with studies in "artificial intelligence" and physics, then for the past 15 years doing active research in biology, leading a large lab).
Your post, therefore, told me nothing really new. But it doesn't detract from the benefit of the Hicks' (current) message, which is to stay focused on joy, to minimize resistance, and so on. You say it made you life somehow "worse" but it has definitely improved my life. To each their own.
However, what prompted this comment is your discussion here with Namita about cancer and cancer cures.
If you look rationally at the "cancer industry," it is just as full of snake-oil as is anyone who claims we can cure it with our minds.
Cancer is a complex, multifaceted disease (actually, more correctly, it is a spectrum of heterogeneous, closely related diseases, often caused by chromosomal aberrations such as SNV's, CNA's, and etc - yes, my current, funded research is directly in this area, so I know of what I speak).
The so-called "cures" offered by the mainstream medical establishment often satisfy all the criteria for so-called snake-oil salesmen:
1) They are expensive (very expensive!!)
2) They require ongoing treatment & dependency
3) They (very) frequently don't work (like they didn't for my father, who died)
4) Patients are told that by seeking out any other solution that they are succumbing to "snake-oil" cures and remedies.
The worst kind of snake-oil salesmen are those that tell you that any other possible approach to your disease is "snake-oil!" (especially when their own solution doesn't work).
So, to whom does this label apply more? Mainstream doctors when "treating" cancer (and belittling any alternative, regardless of merit), or the Hicks?
In my listening to Abraham, I've not heard him/her/it/they suggest that you just stop all "treatment" when diagnosed with something like cancer. What I've heard them suggest is simple: if you're going to seek treatment, seek it out in the most positive mental state possible. (If they had told people to stop or avoid particular treatments, that would have set off alarm bells).
In other words, the Hicks' are saying - hey, it's fine if you seek out that other treatment, just do it with a great mental attitude. I've heard them suggest that multiple times.
In my science research, I want to find the basis for cancers. That's why I do it. But, having been involved in it, by and large we still have no good grasp on what's going on - after 30+ years and over 20 BILLION dollars of scientific research (such as mine). Remember when Nixon declared "War on Cancer?" Yeah, that was when I was a small child.
Maybe that's because the "cause" isn't quite so simple/mechanistic as anyone thinks....
So: when you talk above as if you know, objectively, that the Hicks' are "wrong" and that you know/understand science; and when you talk above as if you know that "positive thinking" doesn't help with cancer (studies are divided on that - depends how the study is done, as with ANY study); you don't truly know of what you speak.
(to be continued next comment)
(cont'd...)All of science is a process - a process of attempting to discover what makes our world work. It is a process that involves many humans who are often closed-minded and stuck in existing paradigms so firmly that they strongly resist new paradigms - even when the new paradigms are supported by data.
ReplyDeleteHere are examples:
1. Look up Nobel prizewinner Barry Marshall. See what he went through to prove that H. Pylori causes stomach ulcers. An unfriendly reception he had. He ended up drinking a culture of H. Pylori and getting sick to finally gain some recognition for his ideas. It took 20+ years, but now all doctors "know" that H. Pylori causes ulcers. (Whereas in the early 1980's, doctors "knew" that stress and stomach acid causes ulcers). Isn't it funny how "knowing" can change 180 degrees amongst the medical establishment. I guess they all must be frauds because they changed their minds like Abraham did (according to your post above).
2. Look up Nobel prize winner Daniel Shechtman - see the troubles he had convincing his peers that data on five-sided crystals was in fact correct. He was ridiculed and heckled, and told to go back to the textbooks which said this was "impossible." Took him decades to convince people to listen. Great youtube video on this, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V2GqU6fdjeQ
(I can provide many more, but I fear this comment has already sapped too much of my precious time!)
You argue above about the "truth" and yet there isn't "truth" - at least not in science.
The only thing that science can do, ultimately, is falsify, or prove something wrong.
In other words, if I claim to you that "there are no black swans" - science cannot EVER prove such a statement, because it is impossible to assess the whole span of time and space where a black swan might exist.
However, what science can do is disprove (falsify) my hypothesis that "there are no black swans" - by finding real-world data that contradicts it. And that actually happened.
You claim that all these channelers (The Hicks in particular) are lying, as if you have a known and provable "truth" about the world. But I know you don't - because nobody does.
You can give examples about measuring water into a cup, and you may be able to argue that you've measured the "correct" amount, which forms some basis for truth. But even that is fleeting at best. Wait a day - and much of your water will have evaporated. Or it will be frozen (if outside in winter). Your 1/2 cup will vary depending on fluctuations in barometric pressure. It will vary based on quantum tunneling of H2O into and through the glass.
You can never measure EXACTLY 1/2 cup of water. It's impossible. Nowhere in our entire universe exists anything that perfect or exact. I like to give this exercise to my students: draw a perfect circle.
You can't. Nobody can. The atoms will wiggle and move around, no matter how hard you try.
There is no "TRUTH" except that which we choose to see and focus upon about our world.
(cont'd next comment)
(cont'd)So, as to the "truth" of Abraham - the Hicks have their interpretation of what is happening. It is not too far from the interpretation that many novelists, painters, musicians, and artists give for "tapping the muse" or "hearing the music" when they are composing great works. See Elizabeth Gilbert's TED talk as a great example.
ReplyDeleteThe Hicks have openly stated that the "channeling" they do is biased by Esther's own background and mindset. That means that, even if it is "infinite intelligence" somewhere behind it, that it IS limited by Esther's own brain's ability to interpret/translate that intelligence. Esther is a mortal human with biases just like anyone. It's like putting the Colorado river through a garden hose. You're not going to get the whole stream! You're going to get one small, limited sampling of the stream.
Therefore, if someone goes to an Abraham Hicks seminar thinking that it is going to be "The Truth" and that it should be accepted with no critical thinking whatsoever, then that person is in a sorry, vulnerable state. Likely, that person is searching out SOME person with a more strong opinion to latch onto for "salvation." Personally I'd far rather have that kind of person be convinced by Abraham/Esther of a message of joy, peace, and love than, for example, have them end up at a Ku Klux Klan meeting and be convinced of a message of hate and violence.
But the reality is, there are many people who are vulnerable in our society, and you'd do far more good with your time and effort helping them become less vulnerable than you do spending your time bashing the Hicks'. The problem is not the Hicks' message, it is that there are so many desperate, uncritical people wandering around devoid of hope or meaning for their lives!
Here's how I choose to see it: Esther Hicks is simply performing a creative expression of something she has chosen to label as Abraham. As with ANY creative expression in this world, there will be people who like it and find use in it, and there will be people who don't like it and don't find use in it. (As an example, I love Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, but dislike almost all Opera music - yet there are plenty of other people who have opposite tastes, and hate Pink Floyd while loving Opera).
(To be continued next comment)
(cont'd...)So, why not leave it at that? Why do you feel the need to attack these people? The last time you went to a concert that wasn't as good as you hoped, or really didn't resonate with you, did you put up a blog to call that artist fraudulent?
ReplyDeleteTo be consistent, you should do that too. In fact, I should go buy a bunch of opera tickets, go to those shows that I know I won't enjoy or gain benefit from, then start a blog accusing them of defrauding me.
That gives me a great idea for a new blog: OperaIsFraud.com ;)
If you really feel "harmed" by the Hicks, then let's hear your story. Let's analyze whether it was really their teachings that harmed you, or whether it was your own uncritical acceptance that harmed you. Let's figure out whether you really put the practices of joy, love, peace, and allowing into place in your life, or whether you just tried a few things for a short while, then gave up in an angry fit. Let's consider the alternatives to you having followed the Hicks when you were vulnerable to whom else you could have followed, and what harm that might have done to you (e.g. the Jones cult).*
I think that will reveal a lot.
Professor M
(The ONLY reason I won't use my full name here is because I was rather harsh on the medical establishment and cancer, which in the conservative establishment we call science can have big repercussions)
* Cults are bad. The first thing I did when I encountered the Hicks and their message was to sniff them out for cultism. If I ever get any sense that they're trying to be cultish, by forcing people into uncritical following, that's when I'll run away, fast.
Hey there Professor M.,
ReplyDeleteI will make my point succinct and clear.
As a scientist, I am sure you understand that it is not my job to disprove what Esther claims. It is her job to prove it, which she has not done, and most likely will not do. Also, I’m sure you are aware that the Galileo gambit you provided is not really helping your point. And there are several straw men fallacies within your argument, seemingly debating points that I have not made. For instance, you seem to suggest that one of my issues with Abraham is that they are anti-medicine, and I don’t feel that I have depicted that anywhere in my comments. Rather, I have said what I meant, which was that they make unscientific claims about the nature of health and wellbeing. Also, I have said that they do offer an alternative to medical treatment, which they do. Anyone using the materials could feel the path of least resistance would be to not go the medical community route and to cure themselves via the Abraham processes.
As a scientist, I am sure you are aware of the plethora of unscientific ideas that Abraham teaches. It isn’t just promoting feel-good nonsense. It makes claims about the afterlife, universal laws, and the nature of reality. They don’t support this with evidence, so I am wildly surprised that you seem to have taken such a fancy to them. Though perhaps your suspicious comment about my “materialist/rationalist viewpoint”—and your affection for a teaching rooted in pseudoscience—leads me to wonder if you are one to be criticizing my understanding of science.
The thing about skeptics is they have a closed mind to begin with, and pick their way into proving their case, although actually nothing is proved. I had a spiritual teacher who always said "I can't prove this to you - you have to try it and prove it to yourself." I think in the following years traditional science will be left in the cold, because, well, it is skeptical, dogmatic, and close-minded. But progressive science will meet up with spirituality on the same playing field. A closed mind doesn't have a chance of learning any new stuff, especially if it has been stuffed all of its life into the dirt of 3 dimensional 5 sense "reality". It is self-imprisonment. Sure an open mind accepts some false stuff along the way, but at least it can learn & grow.
ReplyDeleteMy mother-in-law unfortunately buys into this scam, and it is doing her anything but good. The danger with making somebody think they can control their destiny, and to shun negative (read: critical) thinking, sets them up for constant disappointment, and subsequently a constant need to keep listening to the scammers, which generally has a dollar symbol attached to it. My mother in law is now sensing "negativity" in all places, and gradually removes herself increasingly out of any social situation she might perceive as causing or having "negative vibrations", therefore distancing herself from the wonderful people around her, including here daughter. I've watched a number of the Abraham videos on YouTube. The lack of logic in all of this astounds me and the willingness of people to simply accept concepts like "vibrations" and"the vortex" without any adequate definition is worrying. The idea that the scientific method is dogmatic and close minded (presented by a fellow anonymous poster here) is such a dangerous misunderstanding in the way that it coincides with and extends the ability of these cults to empower themselves through peoples' everlasting search for happiness. My wife recently had to have an operation that saved her life. Her mother didn't want her to have the operation, believing that she could instead be fixed with Epsom salts and apple juice. She presumably blames herself and those around her (including me and her daughter) for manifesting the condition through negative thinking. Even more sadly, she clearly thinks she and her daughter have failed in their inability to fix her daughter's condition through "energy" and "vibrations". She has become more withdrawn, and turns to all this hokum with more fervour because she presumably feels that as a result of this experience, she still has so much more to "learn". My experience of all this is that it seems to breed unhappiness to foster in oneself the fasle belief that the individual can control all aspects of their destiny. Me and my wife on the other hand are very happy people, but saddened now to see her mother deteriorating in this way, and the effect it has on her husband, and her relationship with her daughter my wife. If you buy into this stuff, ask yourself: why am I still listening? What am I stil looking for? I would encourage you to find it in the fragile beauty of a world you cannot control. A world you can appreciate, enjoy and admire with great joy, knowledgable that you are blessed with great fortune to be here at all. And if you want to be rich and happy, yes, that's definitely something you can something about. You could do it by manipulating people (like "Abraham") which might make you rich (though presumably not truly happy) or you could find other ways to work towards a fulfilling and enriching life through education about the real world, and the passionate application of it for the greater good. A medical doctor perhaps? Or a scientist, researching a genuine cure for cancer?
ReplyDelete